my opinion: the bag law is a failure (San Diego, San Francisco: home, taxes)

[Clark Fork Fantast]

And the new, thick plastic bags will be showing up in the environment--and it will take them a long time to break down, compared to the old, free, flimsy bags. They may be reuseable, but eventually they still get discarded. Yep, great deal, great idea. Not.

[Dub D]

They have the same laws in Europe. It's been like this for at least a decade.

They sell bags for 5 or 10 cents. It's the cheap plastic bag. It's become second nature to bring your own bags.

I'd say starting 2018, we remove the stronger bags then have to pay 10 cents for the old cheap bag.

The bag law isn't a failure. It's just we don't want to adjust. And if you're really upset over 10 cents, you suck at life.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

How about we get rid of kevlar balloons? These things are a scourge. They are all over the mountains, deserts and oceans. They seem to take forever to break down. Those cheap grocery bags turn to dust quickly.

[Jenkay]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

How about we get rid of kevlar balloons? These things are a scourge. They are all over the mountains, deserts and oceans. They seem to take forever to break down. Those cheap grocery bags turn to dust quickly.

Oh man. I've seen those things wrapped around plants/shrubs/cacti/trees in some of the most remote places I've been. I pulled 4 of them off of plants in Joshua Tree over the course of a 10-mile hike a just few weeks ago. I hate them so much that I actually lectured a coworker who brought in a bunch of heart-shaped ones for valentines day!

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Jenkay

Oh man. I've seen those things wrapped around plants/shrubs/cacti/trees in some of the most remote places I've been. I pulled 4 of them off of plants in Joshua Tree over the course of a 10-mile hike a just few weeks ago. I hate them so much that I actually lectured a coworker who brought in a bunch of heart-shaped ones for valentines day!

Those things can start fires by hitting power lines and just the reflection off the mirrored surface. I've seen them in the middle of nowhere 100 miles out in the ocean.

[eastcoastbias]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

How about we get rid of kevlar balloons? These things are a scourge. They are all over the mountains, deserts and oceans. They seem to take forever to break down. Those cheap grocery bags turn to dust quickly.

If the State can acquire money somehow from it- don't worry it is right around the corner.

[AmyVVV]

I keep all my fabric bags in the trunk of my car. That way I will hopefully remember them when I get to the store. After I get home and unload them, I hang them on the doorknob that leads to the garage so I can put them back in the car. It doesn't work every time, but most of the time!

[Clark Fork Fantast]

Originally Posted by Dub D

They have the same laws in Europe. It's been like this for at least a decade.

They sell bags for 5 or 10 cents. It's the cheap plastic bag. It's become second nature to bring your own bags.

I'd say starting 2018, we remove the stronger bags then have to pay 10 cents for the old cheap bag.

The bag law isn't a failure. It's just we don't want to adjust. And if you're really upset over 10 cents, you suck at life.

Those European bags (at least in Scandinavia) are thick, and take forever to break down--and they cost around 50 cents, not 5 or 10 cents. The plastic stinks of chemicals, by the way. But most people still buy them, because it is easier that way. They fit the small European trash bins, so people reuse them for trash--which means they still show up in landfills, and in nature. So where is the environmental advantage?

[mauialoha]

Damn, a lot of straw men on this thread. That happens when some groups talk among themselves. I'll pop in just long enough to point out that while a plastic for sale bag is not what I would choose to have available, it is only there for people who refuse to get with the program.

This is a small number in my experience. We and 90% of the people I see at the supermarkets bring reusable cloth bags. So the overall amount of plastic in the landfills goes way down when this sort of law is enacted.

The 10cent plastic bag is, I'm sure, insisted upon by the grocery store Corporations. It's disingenuous to blame politicians or those of us who care about the environment for a compromise that enables something to be done to improve the situation.

The 10 cent bag is to avoid requiring a $3 cloth bag which could, at least for a while, cost the grocers business. It is not, as has been ridiculously claimed, to make profits on the sales. I would prefer the plastic be eliminated completely but this law is at least a step in the right direction.
Dave

[citizensadvocate]

MauiAloha your name sounds like you are from Maui Hawaii. Are you a Hawaiian? If so do you think about the disruption of the Superferry in the name of protecting the environment? Now more people have to fly Back to the topic I read they have a plastic bag ban in Islands of Hawaii but none requires a fee. Grocery giants like Safeway don't like it. But at least the leaders there drawn the line and turned down the big grocers lobby as its not the governments job to protect grocers from competition. In fact this violates anti trust laws. Before we have this fad of charging minimum fees for bags We never had required stores to charge minimum fees to be recorded like any other tax

I guess you mainly shop at Trader Joes, Whole Foods, and Sprouts. Those progressive thinking stores serving like minded customers in which the former two had phrased out plastic bags on their own accord a while ago and used incentives to encourage the use of reusable bags. Though the big difference was before the law the paper bags were free and those bringing reusable bags voluntarily get a voucher or a 5c discount. Therefore many customers were already bringing in bags before this went into effect.

I along with an organization I worked for did random store audits before and after this ordinances took effect in different stores ranging from mainstream ones like Safeway or Albertsons/Lucky as well as stores like Trader Joes. Before the ban about 85% of the shoppers chose plastic bags at the main stream stores as well as Sprouts where plastic bags are offered as an option by the cashier. 10% chose or brought in paper or reusable, 5% used no bag. In stores like Trader joes and wholefoods where plastic is not available about 70% chose the store's paper bags and about 20% used reusable or brought own bags 10% walked out with one or two items in hand. After the ordinance or SB270 had been passed about 55% choose the stores bags whether paper or thick plastic depending on availability at checkout for a fee thick plastic is often favored more than paper where available in almost all the stores listed above, the difference is reusable increased by about an average of 14% from where it used to be before the ordinance in all affected stores, for example from 5%- to 19% in main stream supermarkets like Albertsons. And from 20%-34% in stores like Trader Joes and Whole foods. The rest use no bags which increased about 20% in all these locations. So not eeryone is adopting to reusable bags as you think and grocers are still making a fortune from bag fees which is their intention.

I hope you don't use bin liners and only buy items wrapped in paper as what whole foods does. Including for your fruits or vegetables. The use of these increased many many times since the ban negating any environmental benefits which appears to be zero in the first place. SFDFW and a number of waste audits done around the world backs this evidence proving these groups are just enviro hyprocrites. This movement is no different from targeting spiders first in an attempt to control pests. The truth is spiders kill lots of other worse pests.

A much better law is to have grocers and diners follow whole foods example and reduce plastic in packaging as much as possible. Work with stores to use sealable compostable bags that are waste management approved and customers would be instructed to bag all garbage with it. Recyclables should be in paper bags which should be able to be sealed at the top to prevent garbage blow out during collection.