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What is it about North County that attracts you? Based on what you've said so far, it seems like the parts of San Diego you should be checking out are south of La Jolla. Have you looked at anything in Crown Point? Point Loma? Coronado? Going slightly further away from the ocean, Mission Hills is nice and you can avoid freeway noise if you find the right spot. Bay Park is the same to some degree. You should also look at some of San Diego's most attractive older neighborhoods like University Heights and Kensington. All are cute, walkable areas with low crime. Plus you don't have to worry about upkeep on a very large lot like you would find in Rancho Santa Fe. Weather is nice in all these areas. Warmer than Oakland but still not as hot as someplace like Walnut Creek. I think Kensington is about as far inland as you can get before it's actually hot out during the summer.
If California is open, I suggest you look on the Central Coast. San Luis Obispo is nice. Monterey is sleepy but could work. Santa Cruz can be charming but has some of the same crime and homelessness problems you find in the Bay Area. SLO, Monterey, and San Diego have a slower pace of life than the Bay Area. Santa Cruz is mixed. Santa Barbara is chill but traffic really sucks, so that might get to you after a while.
I believe I was making some implicit assumptions which may not be at all well founded.
My reasoning so far:
Aside from my positive memories and impressions of San Diego from my various visits over the years, I have been looking at San Diego in general for coastal weather, affordability (although my specific neighborhood is nice, Oakland is ridiculously expensive for such a dumpy area with the skyhigh crime rate), and proximity to Kaiser Permanente or health care (including tertiary) of very high quality nearby. We are healthy right now but not getting younger.
That last part has eliminated areas like SLO, Monterey and Santa Cruz (and I agree with your assessments). The access to KP is not there and if I switched systems, I still want high quality/good levels of tertiary care nearby.
So, as I go through a process of elimination, I have been looking at SD, Santa Rosa (not coastal, but not that much warmer than Oakland, less expensive), and southern Orange County. There were a couple of area in LA I thought about (the suggestion of Malibu, maybe Manhattan Beach, etc.) but I quickly recoiled at the thought of being in LA - not for me.
Regarding areas south of La Jolla, you are right, I had not really considered them and I will start checking them out right away. Thanks for that. I am in the process of getting introductions to a couple of agents (hopefully very ethical and professional - an agent friend here is making the connection) in the area - I definitely want professional help and local insight. But, I am trying to acquire as much knowledge as I can in advance of an engagement with an agent and a personal visit/search.
Another implicit assumption - I started my search with good distance between the potential neighborhood and downtown SD. I have been assuming that there is an extra premium in the price of a home if it is close to downtown with an easier commute. If so, I have no need/desire to pay for that since I don't need it. That is part of why (whether wrong or right) I skipped over some areas as I started looking.
Thanks for the additional background. Yes, KP does not have a presence on the Central Coast. The medical infrastructure is good, but realistically you'd have to switch providers to take advantage of it.
There isn't a big premium for proximity to downtown San Diego. In fact, some of the more affordable areas are near there. San Diego reminds me of San Jose/Silicon Valley in this regard. The premium is more for UTC/Sorrento Valley than downtown San Diego, much like it is more for Silicon Valley than downtown San Jose. The main difference is that downtown San Diego has some appeal, which downtown San Jose is even quieter than downtown Oakland.
Southern Orange County might work. San Clemente is more charming than Oceanside, but it's relatively small, so expect to travel slightly north for some things. At least traffic isn't as bad in this area as it is closer to the 405 interchange.
As for here in the Bay Area, I don't think Santa Rosa is particularly nice. It's hot, kinda ugly, and downtown is full of methheads. Plus the ongoing fire problems have been a real drag on the area. Petaluma is nicer (west of 101 in particular) but has bad traffic. I would argue that Sonoma and Napa are more appealing. Sonoma has a lot of retirees, while Napa is more diverse.
Thanks for this information. Santa Rosa has been in my "possible" list but it has felt like a backup - in case San Diego and others drop out. The weather is definitely warmer than here, but I understand it cools off a lot at night.
Good to know about the downtown area. I have been through the area 3 or 4 times, but just to head to the fairgrounds with our dog (AKC obedience trials). So, we really did not see a lot. Some friends just moved there and seem to like it. The fires scare the heck out of us - but I also know they can strike all over CA. I will never forget a freeway drive heading home to Mission Viejo and the hills to both my right and left were on fire........
Good to know about the lack of (or low) premium for being near downtown -
I looked through some of your suggestions. There were at least a couple of very nice homes available in Point Lomas. They look like they are in very good shape and with great views. I imagine it is very flat for walking. Access to the rest of the area looks like it may be a bit constricted. I don't know yet about the basics like supermarket shopping, restaurants , etc. It does seem like the lots are pretty darn small but this is CA by the water after all.
I spoke with a friend today who also used to live in OC (I left for Oakland 20 years ago). He said that the population has continued to explode and, as crowded as it used to be, it is that much more so. San Clemente and thereabouts is about as much of an isolated, less changed enclave as I guess one could get! I agree about traveling North for stuff, but I can hop on the 5 (well outside of rush our) and head up to areas like Mission Viejo for "stuff."
The search for my unicorn is still fun at this point. But, having moved 8 times before, I know what a PITA it can be. I only have one left in me.
mitch, we need to get you a topo map of Point Loma. There's A LOT of "up & down." (I used to surf Sunset Cliffs, back in the 1970's-80's.)
Another thing re: Point Loma...the departure flight path of Lindburgh Field. You said noise is a factor. Well, it's going to be deafening at times. The airport authority has been experimenting with flight paths over the last few years, so this could change yet again. Lastly, the "burnt fuel pollution" from the jets. It puts a grimy layer on everything, everyday. The vast majority of air traffic departs SAN and goes Westbound, then turns L/R to their flight plan.
Since you want to be near KP, there's one in South Carlsbad, right on the I-5 freeway. (Otherwise, there's one in San Marcos.) But that's 12 miles inland.
Speaking of inland vs. coastal temperature differences...
For every mile you go inland, figure about 1 degree increase in daytime (and 1 degree decrease at night time.) as you go inland. This formula is good for about 20-25 miles. (The Pacific Ocean insulates us from heat during Summer, and cold during Winter. Leaving us with a very stable temperature swing.)
I live 1.7 miles from the water. For comparative purposes...Distance from the water, in parenthesis~
Right now, my temp is 75F. (1.7)
Vista is 84F (8)
San Marcos is 84F (11)
Escondido is 90F (16)
Over the coastal mountain range where the altitude can be 6000+ (50-65)
Palomar Mtn. is 84F
You drop into the desert, where it's currently a sultry 115F. (96-150)
I am definitely open to other communities aside from La Jolla, e.g. Del Mar, Solano, etc. In fact, in many ways I may prefer them. Traffic and tourists as described and maybe less $$$.
What holds me back is if all the houses I look at that are close to the water and coastal weather have a lot of freeway noise. The other general item is that we prefer a single story home. We are 68 years old and in good shape. But, at some point, stairs will be an issue. I would like as much longevity in the home as we can get. Of course, these homes are in much lower supply because of lot size. But, more so right at the coast - I assume that, aside from lot size, it is a hill down to the sea.
I had not thought about the upkeep (or the internet for goodness sakes - never occurred to me that would be an issue) in RSF. The houses and the lots certainly look like more house for the money. In fact, too much house. We would be very content in 3000 to 4000 square feet and most of the homes I am seeing online are way bigger than that.
Regarding noise, I looked at the map for Mission Hills. Looks like it is in a triangle of 3 freeways. That makes me think the traffic noise would be pretty difficult to avoid!
So, the magic pony I am looking for is cooler weather, good walkability, flatter lots, quiet, etc.
Any comments on Olivenhain?
Have you considered property taxes? If you're been in your home in Oakland for some time, you may want to confirm if there is a reciprocity agreement on property tax base transfer. I think Alameda County and San Diego County are signatories, but you best better reconfirm for any changes. That can save you a bundle on property taxes in your new place.
Some friends just moved there and seem to like it.
Don't get me wrong, Santa Rosa has its nice parts. I just find the downtown area very off-putting. I brought this up because you are in Oakland and it has similar issues. Not sure you want to move to a relatively small city and then have to avoid the center of town because it is unpleasant. I have that here in Richmond, which is a lot like Oakland in some ways, and I have a hard time imagining retirement here. Luckily I have 20+ years to think about it.
P.S. As noted above, Point Loma is not flat. Parts of it are, but overall it's like one big, long hill. A localized area can be flat and walkable, but don't think you're going to make it from Sunset Cliffs to Shelter Island without breaking into a sweat. Do be aware of the SAN flight path. Luckily it'll be easy to spot if you visit. If this all sounds too daunting, don't worry, San Diego is big and there are many other nice parts of town to consider!
I don't think this has been addressed, but close to the ocean (eg, west of I-5) you will get marine layer. There's a fair number of posts about this, but I've been a couple blocks off the ocean and had low, grey, dense overcast skies for days or weeks. If I drive a mile or several inland I get bright blue sunny skies. In the Carlsbad and Encinitas area, the cutoff is often roughly El Camino Real.
I think you should also refine "walkablity". To me, that specific term means how much of my daily life can I accomplish without a car (eg, groceries, dining out, gym, etc). That is a different question than making sure you can comfortably walk for exercise with a significant other and/or dog.
Major crime in San Diego is generally quite low for a city of its size. Homelessness is an issue, and most visible in the areas closest to down town. Petty crime is present, again moreso closer to downtown, and also in some of the coastal areas.
I disagree that proximity to downtown SD doesn't impact price. If you compare like to like, closer is more expensive. It's just that closer to DT SD tends to be smaller, older homes. So the price might seem similar, but if you compare the size and features, it's not apples to apples. Personal preference matters here -- some would say Kensington has character while Carlsbad, eg, is much more cookie cutter. Others would say Kensington has small rooms, tiny closets, "old" layouts and not enough natural light.
Certainly proximity to the coast is a huge factor in price any where you are. There is some cachet associated with being "west of the 5" and an accompanying increase in price.
While virtually none of SD is truly urban (outside of DT), places like Kensington and (to a lesser extent) Bay Ho have some urban vibe. Again, preference comes in here: Kensington/etc will have more walkability as defined above, but also a larger homeless presence. Kensington will also likely have a wider socioeconomic base than Carlsbad.
Coronado (island) breaks some of these generalizations. It is quite close to DT SD but in many ways feels more like north county suburbia. It is also quite expensive.
Reading your posts and budget, my first thoughts were Encinitas or Carlsbad. Both are pretty consistently suburban, safe, and upper middle class. You're get more house for the buck than further south (La Jolla, Del Mar, etc) and commuting to downtown isn't a consideration. At your budget, you could go west or east of I-5; I would look at some properties on both sides. I personally lean toward east, primarily for avoiding the marine layer, and also because you will get more bang for your buck and avoid summer tourism and some of the issues that go with that. There are some nice walking paths and trails in both areas and plenty of neighborhoods in which walking for exercise is pleasant.
You are doing the right thing engaging realtor(s). Keep in mind that San Diego county is HUGE and as a result, in my experience, many agents tend to specialize in or favor certain parts and sometimes have outdated knowledge of other parts.
I am pretty familiar with the marine later, having lived in CA since the 80s. I assume that (checking here), when this occurs, it is overcast and, perhaps, foggy in the AM. Typically burns off as the temperatures warm up - usually around noon-ish. That is what I am used to - I love light sweatshirt and shorts weather. I don't care too much about sunny days - more about a very moderate temperature. Your guidance about El Camino Real can prove to be invaluable. I have been looking for a way to ascertain what the temperature gradient looks like Although I am sure it is not some sort of absolute, I think it will help me a lot.
For me, walkability is the latter scenario you described. My wife and I like taking the dog for a 1 or 2 mile walk every day. Being able to walk out the front door and have an enjoyable walk without steep hills is what we are seeking. Being able to walk into town for a store or restaurant is a plus, but not nearly as important. Sure would be nice to walk over to the beach but that may prove to be stratospheric $.
So far, I am still finding myself consistently reviewing listings in the strip from La Jolla up to Carlsbad, on both sides of the 5. Yes, I can see the price gradient up to Carlsbad - not as much of a price break up North as I would hope for, but it is pretty clearly there. I would not be surprised if I found Carlsbad to be very "tracty" but I am not sure how much I may or may not mind. Depends on the house and all of the other items on my list more - price, size, weather, walking, crime, proximity to my providers, etc.
Thanks for you clarifications and points - helps me a lot.
...I have been looking for a way to ascertain what the temperature gradient looks like Although I am sure it is not some sort of absolute, I think it will help me a lot...
Zone 1: Coastal Prairie
The Coastal Prairie zone hugs our county’s coastline. It is the zone most strongly influenced by the ocean, with a mild marine climate resulting from the warm Pacific Ocean. Winters are mild, summers are cool, and there is almost always moisture in the air.
Zone 4: South Coast Inland
South Coastal Inland areas are just inland from the beach, or on high bluffs above the coastline. You can feel the ocean breeze, but you can’t taste the salt in the air. There is less fog and humidity than the immediate coastal area, and higher temperatures.
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