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Old 12-05-2011, 09:13 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,914 posts, read 14,694,532 times
Reputation: 3119

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
It's a subjective term than can be different things to different people but calling Fruitvale "ghetto" is not changing the meaning of the word at all. Look up the definition of ghetto and Fruitvale can certainly fall in that category. You seem to have your own definition and seem to feel it's a the only correct one, clearly we have differing opinions on what's ghetto.

The origin of the word ghetto comes from the neighborhoods where Jews were forced to live and literally walled away from the rest of society in Europe during the Middle Ages; these neighborhoods and the people who lived in them were excluded from opportunities and had extreme poverty. It came back into popular usage during WWII when the ghettos were recreated in Nazi Germany. The definition of the word has not changed, its contemporary use has... nowadays, people are quick to call any poor minority neighborhood a "ghetto"... East Redwood City, North Antioch, etc. are great examples of places that are currently labeled as ghettos. In reality, though, the real ghettos in the Bay Area are the neighborhoods where people were forced to live in by the rest of society and were allowed to rot. Hunters Point, Marin City, North Richmond, etc. were all created for the purpose of housing "undesirable" people. West Oakland is slightly different in that it passed from whites to blacks, but whites at the time (between the 1900's and 1950's) drew a color line on MLK that restricted the undesirable population of the time (black people) from living anywhere else in the city. That is the textbook definition of a ghetto.

Don't get mad at me because I'm not misusing the word ghetto.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:44 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
18,965 posts, read 32,492,053 times
Reputation: 13615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post
The origin of the word ghetto comes from the neighborhoods where Jews were forced to live and literally walled away from the rest of society in Europe during the Middle Ages; these neighborhoods and the people who lived in them were excluded from opportunities and had extreme poverty. It came back into popular usage during WWII when the ghettos were recreated in Nazi Germany. The definition of the word has not changed, its contemporary use has... nowadays, people are quick to call any poor minority neighborhood a "ghetto"... East Redwood City, North Antioch, etc. are great examples of places that are currently labeled as ghettos. In reality, though, the real ghettos in the Bay Area are the neighborhoods where people were forced to live in by the rest of society and were allowed to rot. Hunters Point, Marin City, North Richmond, etc. were all created for the purpose of housing "undesirable" people. West Oakland is slightly different in that it passed from whites to blacks, but whites at the time (between the 1900's and 1950's) drew a color line on MLK that restricted the undesirable population of the time (black people) from living anywhere else in the city. That is the textbook definition of a ghetto.

Don't get mad at me because I'm not misusing the word ghetto.
Yes I'm well aware the origin of the term. Well if the definition has not changed then I guess there are no ghetto's anywhere in CA since there are no slummy neighborhoods populated by just Jews.

Never said you were misusing it, but the term "ghetto" clearly means something else to you than it does to me and others. You pretty much just seem overly sensitive to the use of the word "ghetto" and try to pretend there is some strict definition and everyone else is using the word wrong now. You can go ahead and sit there and try to argue these areas aren't ghetto just because you don't consider them ghetto, but you would be in a small minority that doesn't consider them run down and ghetto. Perhaps you should start some public relations campaign to get people to not consider these areas ghetto.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
14,643 posts, read 14,544,011 times
Reputation: 15365
The word "ghetto" has been debased to the point someone will call taping together a pair of broken sunglasses "ghetto". 90s' definition is still correct.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:06 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,914 posts, read 14,694,532 times
Reputation: 3119
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Yes I'm well aware the origin of the term. Well if the definition has not changed then I guess there are no ghetto's anywhere in CA since there are no slummy neighborhoods populated by just Jews.

Never said you were misusing it, but the term "ghetto" clearly means something else to you than it does to me and others. You pretty much just seem overly sensitive to the use of the word "ghetto" and try to pretend there is some strict definition and everyone else is using the word wrong now. You can go ahead and sit there and try to argue these areas aren't ghetto just because you don't consider them ghetto, but you would be in a small minority that doesn't consider them run down and ghetto. Perhaps you should start some public relations campaign to get people to not consider these areas ghetto.
Again, if your point is that the crime-rate is too high in neighborhoods like Fruitvale, I'm right there with you. However, ghettos they are not... "hood" despite being a street slang term that's not as widely used, is more what you're looking for. A "ghetto" is a specific type of neighborhood.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,750,520 times
Reputation: 28561
THe word ghetto's implied meaning has changed a lot. It has digressed from being a type of neighborhood to an adjective used to describe neighborhoods, people and behaviors.

In the original sense of the word, Fruitvale is not a ghetto, but using the contemporary definition, some people who live there would be described as "ghetto." This causes a lot of confusion.

I do not think Fruitvale is a ghetto, but it is definitely sketchy in lots of parts.

Last edited by jade408; 12-05-2011 at 10:53 PM..
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:22 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
18,965 posts, read 32,492,053 times
Reputation: 13615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post
Again, if your point is that the crime-rate is too high in neighborhoods like Fruitvale, I'm right there with you. However, ghettos they are not... "hood" despite being a street slang term that's not as widely used, is more what you're looking for.
Disagree, like I've said numerous times now you clearly have your own definition that you seem to want everyone to subscribe to. I get it already, you don't consider some neighborhoods "ghetto" that MANY other people like myself do.
Quote:
A "ghetto" is a specific type of neighborhood.
And Fruitvale and many others would fit that definition for ME and many other people.

We just keep going in circles here at this point because you don't like how I and probably others use the term "ghetto". Again, some of you are just way to sensitive about it.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:34 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,914 posts, read 14,694,532 times
Reputation: 3119
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
THe word ghetto's implied meaning has changed a lot. It has digresses from being a type of neighborhood to an adjective used to describe neighborhoods, people and behaviors.

In the original sense of the word, Fruitvale is not a ghetto, but using the contemporary definition, some people who live there would be described as "ghetto." This causes a lot of confusion.

I do not think Fruitvale is a ghetto, but it is definitely sketchy in lots of parts.

^Basically this... Fruitvale between Foothill Blvd and San Leandro street and sections between 580 and Foothill are definitely sketchy, no question about it. In general, it's not where you want to be hanging out at night. However, a purposefully contained minority poverty-zone it is not. In the present, even West Oakland is not entirely a ghetto... the housing projects in it certainly are though, and were created for the purpose of keeping poor blacks in West Oakland and not dispersing to other parts of the city... Acorn, Campbell Village, etc. are all part of this legacy. This is also true of other parts of Oakland... Lockwood Gardens (65 Ville) and Greenside (77th & Bancroft) are examples of this same legacy in East Oakland. Public housing is the true 20th century ghetto...
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:31 AM
rah
 
Location: Oakland
3,314 posts, read 9,212,530 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRISTINsf View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/us...pagewanted=all

In the Fruitvale Section of Oakland Merchants are Armed and Wary

At Esparza’s Jewelry in the Fruitvale section of Oakland, the owner, Rodolfo Perez, works the counter with a .38-caliber revolver strapped to his belt.
Sounds like one corner store owner I used to know in SF, whose store was constantly getting robbed, so he got a gun and shot the next person who tried to rob him (this was in Hunters Point).


Quote:
Originally Posted by KRISTINsf View Post
Like much of East Oakland, Fruitvale has long been plagued by crime. But merchants say their frustration is boiling over because of an increase in lawlessness, including shootings for money and armed robberies in broad daylight.

------------

Shootings for money/armed robberies, and in broad daylight? Sounds like SF too. So why exactly are you so concerned with Oakland?
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:42 AM
rah
 
Location: Oakland
3,314 posts, read 9,212,530 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
I know, huh?



To be fair, the overall crime rates of San Francisco vs Oakland are worlds apart...
Not completely. They have bad neighborhoods that are about on par with each other for crime, but Oakland does have a bit more of the bad, and it makes up a larger proportion of the city than SF. They're actually pretty close for property crime rate, with SF having a significantly higher larceny rate than Oakland. Oakland is higher for everything else though...as for violent crime, SF actually was higher than Oakland once in the past 25 years, in 1990 (it was only once, but I bet it would surprise plenty of people that it happened it all), though of course Oakland has been higher every other year.
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Old 12-06-2011, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
9,197 posts, read 16,793,105 times
Reputation: 6373
Quote:
Originally Posted by rah View Post

Shootings for money/armed robberies, and in broad daylight? Sounds like SF too. So why exactly are you so concerned with Oakland?
Didn't you hear? Scary Black People live there.
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