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"I would say that the majority of people in THE STREETS OF Mid Market are black. Homeless they may be, but they technically live there."
Huh?
The area of Market Streets between Post and First Streets are ANY thing BUT black! Those are business district streets and blocks that still house the few retailers that policies like those of the very drunk ex-Governor Gavin Newsom put forth.
That area up around Sixth Street is where all the people from the Tenderloin hang out ... the Mexican and black drug dealers ... and all the many whites who's lifestyle choices ended them up with addictions, mental illnesses, and diseases. The populations we're talking about ... regardless of skin tone, are people who've grown up with trauma.
I notice the way this issue knee-jerks us ... even though 99% of the posters have handled themselves .. and the issue with decency and intelligence. Even though I sense some of us may be liberals and others slightly more conservative or Libertarian.
I recently heard a program about why Liberals and Conservatives cannot understand each other. Liberals view the world through lenses of "fairness and racism."
Conservatives value being a part of "The Group" and honoring authority. Conservatives are more inclined to view, "Fairness" from the perspective that if a CEO can get employees to work for 3 dollars an hour rather than the "fair" price of ... 11 dollars an hour, then who is "big government" or any one else to say otherwise. (This is why so many poor Republicans vote against their best economic interests.) Life being more complex than simple, we all have mixtures of both in various places.
So when we see "race" (and there's only ONE race, and that's the human race) enters the discussion, it can be like blind men touching an elephant. Each sees a different part. (i.e. the two guys who glibly remarked that they waved to the last black leaving S.F. in his Caddie on his way to Tracy ... or Stockton.)
Who says we blacks have to go to either?
Why would it be viewed as losing something if a black person decided that life in S.F. was not in his or her best interest?
Well ... perhaps some may feel that if they aren't in "The Group", then they have somehow failed. "The Group" may be too toxic for me to feel it's worth it to be a part of.
In Capitalism, to have a top, you have to have a bottom.
It's a way of controlling people. In upper middle class Silicon Valley, couples who both have Masters Degrees feel they have to put their heads down, shut up, work whatever overtime the managers demand, or they could lose their mortgage. That's a real fear.
Problem is ... being in or a part of "The Group" in this instance, is acquiescencing to a Status Quo that eventually, isn't in their best interest ... something Germans discovered in and after World War II.
Huh?
The area of Market Streets between Post and First Streets are ANY thing BUT black! Those are business district streets and blocks that still house the few retailers that policies like those of the very drunk ex-Governor Gavin Newsom put forth.
That area up around Sixth Street is where all the people from the Tenderloin hang out ... the Mexican and black drug dealers ... and all the many whites who's lifestyle choices ended them up with addictions, mental illnesses, and diseases. The populations we're talking about ... regardless of skin tone, are people who've grown up with trauma.
I notice the way this issue knee-jerks us ... even though 99% of the posters have handled themselves .. and the issue with decency and intelligence. Even though I sense some of us may be liberals and others slightly more conservative or Libertarian.
I recently heard a program about why Liberals and Conservatives cannot understand each other. Liberals view the world through lenses of "fairness and racism."
Conservatives value being a part of "The Group" and honoring authority. Conservatives are more inclined to view, "Fairness" from the perspective that if a CEO can get employees to work for 3 dollars an hour rather than the "fair" price of ... 11 dollars an hour, then who is "big government" or any one else to say otherwise. (This is why so many poor Republicans vote against their best economic interests.) Life being more complex than simple, we all have mixtures of both in various places.
So when we see "race" (and there's only ONE race, and that's the human race) enters the discussion, it can be like blind men touching an elephant. Each sees a different part. (i.e. the two guys who glibly remarked that they waved to the last black leaving S.F. in his Caddie on his way to Tracy ... or Stockton.)
Who says we blacks have to go to either?
Why would it be viewed as losing something if a black person decided that life in S.F. was not in his or her best interest?
Well ... perhaps some may feel that if they aren't in "The Group", then they have somehow failed. "The Group" may be too toxic for me to feel it's worth it to be a part of.
In Capitalism, to have a top, you have to have a bottom.
It's a way of controlling people. In upper middle class Silicon Valley, couples who both have Masters Degrees feel they have to put their heads down, shut up, work whatever overtime the managers demand, or they could lose their mortgage. That's a real fear.
Problem is ... being in or a part of "The Group" in this instance, is acquiescencing to a Status Quo that eventually, isn't in their best interest ... something Germans discovered in and after World War II.
Anyway, the ever disappearing black population in the Bay Area as a whole is one of the reasons I'm not pressed to move back, neither are many of my friends who have found their way to Atlanta, DC, NYC, etc. Having been born and raised in Oakland, I've watched a very important part of the black population continue to dwindle (the middle class/black professionals). I love the Bay Area for it's diversity and the ease in which you can form a very multi-cultural circle of friends, but at the same time, it's disheartening to always feel like the token in young, upwardly mobile crowds....you don't get this feeling in some of the other areas I've listed, especially DC and NYC. While there is nothing that can be done on a public front to change this, I just wish that white/Asian posters on this board would take a minute to understand how this dearth of African Americans changes our perception of what diversity is.
You're aware that the black population of Atlanta is shrinking too, correct? Black flight from the cities is hardly limited to San Francisco or Oakland. What makes the Bay Area rather unique is that the blacks aren't just leaving San Francisco and Oakland... they're leaving the metro area. Metro Atlanta's black population is growing even as Atlanta's black population is shrinking.
You're aware that the black population of Atlanta is shrinking too, correct? Black flight from the cities is hardly limited to San Francisco or Oakland. What makes the Bay Area rather unique is that the blacks aren't just leaving San Francisco and Oakland... they're leaving the metro area. Metro Atlanta's black population is growing even as Atlanta's black population is shrinking.
Same thing with DC. DC, proper, is losing its Black population. However, most Blacks that leave DC don't go too far. They usually end up living a few miles from where they used to live in bordering PG County which is the richest Black majority county in America.
With the Bay and California, Blacks are leaving completely because the suburbs are even less welcoming to Blacks than the city. The entire state of California is well under 10% Black. Black people are moving to metro areas where Blacks are very well represented as businessmen, lawyers, doctors (i.e. DC, Atlanta, NYC); not just block huggers, teenage killers, schizophrenic old ladies, homeless people, welfare recipients and crackheads like modern day Black San Francisco. I have met many Black San Francisco and Oakland natives out here in DC. My Giants fitted sparked up a few conversations in bars. You bet these Black Bay Area natives in DC have good jobs which is why they moved to DC in the first place. Many of these people lament that their "childhood is dead" because the Bay is not what it was when they grew up there. San Francisco used to be much Blacker in the 70's at a peak of around 20% of the city's population. However, the population has steadily declined every decade since then.
A previous poster made the smart conclusion that Blacks are leaving ghetto enclaves in big cities and integrating into society at a large, mainly in diverse suburban areas across the country. This is a good thing. Most big cities are too socially backwards and segregated in offering few opportunities for poor minorities. In many quiet relatively safe suburban communities across the country, kids of all backgrounds aren't out selling crack at 3 in the morning and killing each other just because they live in different neighborhoods. That is the sad part of the endless and senseless cycle of violence in any ghetto in any big city. The town where I live today, has proportionally much more Black people of all incomes than SF and we have close to zero homicides a year and a very, very low crime rate. Who wants to raise their kids in a violent environment full of alcohol and drugs? Nobody wants to live in a neighborhood where bullets are flying around outside every night and day no matter how pretty it may look. Blacks are leaving SF and many big cities across the land for greener pastures. SF, like most big dreamer cities from DC to LA to NYC, has become a city that is home to only the extreme winners and losers of capitalism. It just so happens that SF's Black population wasn't all that large to begin with even when SF was much Blacker and the fact that Whites and Asians running the city have always treated Blacks like a peripheral minority.
Last edited by goldenchild08; 05-29-2012 at 12:25 AM..
Despite SF being a horrible place for blacks to live, let's not paint DC as the complete opposite. Most blacks are being driven out of DC proper by the same racist white and Asian power structure that dominate SF. Most blacks seem like they're successful, but $70-$100K is just middle class at best in this area where the average white person makes $150-$200K, or has a trust fund. Also, self-segregation is pushed on all blacks like it's the law (i.e. the reason why many blacks choose PG County, which for the most part is as bad as East Oakland). You're not going to find any sort of integration in the DC area to the degree that you'll find in most East Bay cities. And for black DC natives like myself, true success is mostly defined by my ability to leave the area once and for all, just like most blacks who want to leave the Bay Area. The biggest insult for me is that DC's economy is the only show in town (or should I say, this country) and people keep shoving down my throat that this is a black mecca, where clearly this place can only be considered a mecca for "simple" blacks.
Last edited by Do a Barrel Roll; 05-29-2012 at 05:56 AM..
Despite SF being a horrible place for blacks to live, let's not paint DC as the complete opposite. Most blacks are being driven out of DC proper by the same racist white and Asian power structure that dominate SF. Most blacks seem like they're successful, but $70-$100K is just middle class at best in this area where the average white person makes $150-$200K, or has a trust fund. Also, self-segregation is pushed on all blacks like it's the law (i.e. the reason why many blacks choose PG County, which for the most part is as bad as East Oakland). You're not going to find any sort of integration in the DC area to the degree that you'll find in most East Bay cities. And for black DC natives like myself, true success is mostly defined by my ability to leave the area once and for all, just like most blacks who want to leave the Bay Area. The biggest insult for me is that DC's economy is the only show in town (or should I say, this country) and people keep shoving down my throat that this is a black mecca, where clearly this place can only be considered a mecca for "simple" blacks.
Having lived in DC and the East Bay, I disagree, I feel as though they are comparable in integration. Yes a lot of black people choose to live in PG County, but at the same time, everyone comes out to hang in the same places in Adams Morgan, U Street, H Street, Chinatown. DC also has a much better representation of [young] college educated black professionals than Oakland/SF, this plays a lot into the "black Mecca" mindset, regardless of income. In the Bay Area, I often met black men who had not attended and/or finished college, in DC, most of the men I dated all had master's degrees and 100% of them went to and finished college. Regardless of this population living in DC proper or not, amongst themselves in PG County or not, that population exists, in mass, and is not had to find on any evening you spend out and about. Furthermore, DC still has plenty of integration, you're not giving up much on that front coming from the Bay; you see tons of multi-cultural groups of friends whereas moving to a place like ATL or Chicago, you have plenty of black professionals, but groups are HIGHLY segregated. You may be tired of DC in the same way most people tire of their home turf, but the high representation of educated blacks in and around the area still trumps that of the Bay Area.
It is a trip to realize that the "diversity" that so many in the SF Bay Area celebrate, take pride in, and strive for is the kind that has as few Blacks as possible. When I lived in San Jose, people were always going on and on about how diverse it was. One day I met someone from Europe that finally had the guts to state the obvious, "There are no Black people here in San Jose?" All I could think was wow, someone finally mentions the pink elephant with blue spots in the middle of the room. Silicon Valley with all of it's wealth, opportunities, innovation, optimistic spirit, and desirability, and so called meritocracy, is the absolute epitome of institutional racism at its best.
Yes there are. There's even a rather extensive hiphop scene in SJ, featuring quite a few black performers and fans. Jazz and blues as well.
African countries like Ethiopia and Nigeria are well-represented throughout the area.
Tech companies: Not terribly well-represented by the black community.
I don't know if I'd use the term "well-represented" to describe the black community in San Jose. It is still 3-4% including all of the recent African immigrants.
so i have to ask ... i've been gone from san jose since the dot com crash of 2001. east palo alto used to be all black. i read now that it's mostly hispanic. is that right?
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