San Francisco - Is $13,000 enough? (Sacramento, Oakland: rent, neighborhood, living)

[dalparadise]

And no, I would not call Pittsburgh the "SF of the East". It's a nice town, but it's not in the same world. Boston may be closest to the SF of the East, but really, there is no place in America quite like this city.

[RatKing216]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

I have two bits of conflicting advice:

1) the idea of a "dream city" exists because the kind of scenario you describe is possible -- meaning you can go to one with nothing and be successful. The key is, you must have a unique talent. The people you have heard of who went to NYC with $10 and built a life had a talent. They struggled for a long time and believed in themselves. The same goes here. If you are a programmer, writer, artist, chef, entrepreneur, etc. and you are really good at it, you will eventually rise to success in San Francisco. you may need to struggle for quite awhile and live far from the City. But, the City is where your craft lives, so you will come here to market it and won't be dissuaded by the high costs and rejections that inevitably confront anyone chasing a true passion. If you have defined your passion and you posses the balls to put your ideas of security on the line, by all means, join the millions of Californians who have gone before you and done exactly that. Chase it down tenaciously. There is a rich and, some say, dwindling tradition of this known as the California Dream. We all would be a lot better off if more people still had the capacity to envision this dream.

Conversely,

2) the people of this "dream city" consider it as such because they truly love it and not just the romantic notion of it. Same with NYC. About three months in, you will realize whether or not this place is for you. By then, though, it will probably be too late to react either way. So, it's important to choose a place that meets practical criteria for good living. These include many of the things you list as your baseline requirements. However, SF doesn't offer these things to a broad range of people. Thats part of what makes the City so desirable. She has to want you as much as you want her.

With that in mind, cities that do make it easy to earn a living or get ahead faster in certain fields, with less specific credentials are often touted by their residents as the best places to live in America. Cities like Houston, Dallas, Denver, Atlanta, etc. fall into this realm. They make it easy to get over the hump, find success, survive and thrive for anyone with enough drive to chase down a dream there. They don't challenge as much or punish as hard as places like SF, NYC, LA, Seattle, etc. if you have true love for a city that will go a little easier on you, like Cleveland, you will be much happier in the long run with going there. That is such a bonus -- finding a place that speaks to your soul. The fact that it's not a "dream city" to anyone else is irrelevant. If you can make your dream in Cleveland, you will ultimately be happier and more successful.

The key is to live your life -- not that of the movies or MTV. Success and happiness are already inside you, waiting to be defined. For many, and you may very well be one of them, the challenge of "making it" presented by a city like SF is integral to that. If this appeals to you, go for it, but be prepared for what's to come. Otherwise, make a good life, make something that makes your city (wherever that is) better, raise a family, or whatever. Just know that whichever route you choose, you will ultimately regret NOT doing the things that scare you more than you will regret the things you do from a purely rational perspective.

Speechless.

[dalparadise]

It took me almost 20 years to muster the courage to come to San Francisco. I spent 25 years in Houston and Dallas, which gave me a good living, a beautiful home and a great network of friends, but ultimately left me empty creatively (I'm in a creative profession) and failed to tweak my urban desires. I kept waiting until I could afford to move to SF, which was a day I knew would never come. Finally, I put my career, marriage and friendships on the line and took the leap about 10 months ago.

I now know its the best decision I have ever made. For me, anyway.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

[ctoocheck]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

And no, I would not call Pittsburgh the "SF of the East". It's a nice town, but it's not in the same world. Boston may be closest to the SF of the East, but really, there is no place in America quite like this city.

Just talking about topography. Of course they're very different in other respects, both very unique places. I've just heard this comparison and chuckled a but.

[tanglenet]

What type of job(s) are you looking for? You don't mention any skills other than the ability to save. You might first want to develop a skillset where you are that can be transferable to another geographic area rather than just move and hope for the best.

[RatKing216]

Originally Posted by tanglenet

What type of job(s) are you looking for? You don't mention any skills other than the ability to save. You might first want to develop a skillset where you are that can be transferable to another geographic area rather than just move and hope for the best.

Honestly, I don't really have a marketable skillset. Sad right? I didn't finish college, and all I do for work at this point is in a Factory. I am willing to take ANY (legal) job that will provide me with a paycheck though. Enough pay to make it by of course. And I'm NOT High Maintenance like a vast majority of people seem to be on these Forums!!! I'm not like some of them asking "Can I make it living in a cardboard box under Interstate 80 on $70k a year?". Whoever can't live a happy life on $40k or more per year has MAJOR priority issues!!! Put the condo on hold, along with the Porsche until you learn how to manage what you have. Come on now. Have you ever thought of RENTING? It's a nifty little thing people do before they decide to grow up and SAVE money to buy a house. Just a thought. And that's my PERSONAL opinion of course. I DO NOT need a lot of money to survive!!! I make $25k right now, and I am perfectly happy. It's better to be truly happy in life, than to have a million dollars and be miserable. I'd be able to make it on "poverty" if I had too!!! I'm not saying I'd WANT to, but I could if I HAD to. It's about managing what you have and dealing with the cards you were dealt!!! Life's a b***h and then you die. So suck it up sweetheart and deal with it like a big boy. I have NO idea where the last few sentences came from, or why I put them there, but I DO find them to be mildly amusing.

[AllenSJC]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

$13,000 a month might just do it!

Seriously....

[pibbs]

Oakland IS far cheaper, like ridiculously cheaper, and it is very close to the city via BART, depending on where you live. Sounds like you might want to look into neighborhoods like Temescal, Harrison St. / Oakland Ave, or maybe places around Lake Merritt (Grand Lake, Piedmont Ave, Adams' Point, although these are more expensive). You'll find that you'll love Oakland as a city, too, and it is a very different beast than SF, but you can still hop on a train and get into downtown SF within 15-20 minutes. Just something to consider.

[HockeyMac18]

Originally Posted by AllenSJC

Seriously....

I find the juxtaposition of this thread and this thread (115K salary - can I survive ?) on the main page to be humorous...

Anyway, to the OP: I can't say your dreams or aspirations are silly or ridiculous. Plenty of people have tried what you're hoping to do. A lot of it just depends on your ability to find work when you get here (which will be a challenge). While I think you could eventually find work, money will always be an issue here. Even if you live in Oakland (which is quite nice, and Far, Far cheaper), you'll have to worry about money a good amount.

There is something to be said about being frugal and being able to live on little; but there's also something to be said about not having to worry about money so much. It'll be a constant issue, and this would drive many people away (particularly those that are accustomed to a certain life style in cheaper areas of the country).

There's certainly risk involved, but you do have $13,000 to play with. Depending on how much of that money you want to keep, you could always move out here, and find some really cheap roomshare in a decent area of Oakland (preferably, a short-term rental agreement, if possible). Or, better yet, do you have friends/family or know anyone in the area that would be willing to put you up for a little bit? When I moved here, I crashed with a friend for a couple of months before I was able to find my permanent apt, and it helped out tremendously. Having that small support in the beginning made all of the difference.

Either way, if you could get out here and live really (I mean REALLY) cheaply for a bit, you could try out the area and see if it's what you were hoping it'd be. Even if you don't find work, you might be able to survive for a while on your savings before having to make a decision on whether to stay.

Alternatively, Cleavland is not a bad town. It was where I was born, and I lived there later in life for ~3 years and had a good time. It is far more affordable (as you know) than SF, and your savings would go way further there since housing there is astronomically cheaper. It's extremely underrated and has plenty of cultural offerings to keep most people happy. I don't think you'd regret moving there.

And, just as an aside, there's no reason you can't eventually move out to SF when you have more money. SF is a wonderful place, but if you don't have a lot of money you can't enjoy most of the things that make it so great. Perhaps you'll enjoy and appreciate SF more in the future, if you ever do decide to make your way out West.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by RatKing216

I've been hearing time and time again as to how much Technology is in demand in the San Francisco area. I highly doubt that would be anything near what I'd be able to get. Are there any (good paying) factory jobs throughout the area at all? I would assume Oakland is more factory based, but I don't know since I've honestly never been to the Bay Area before. :/

We don't have many factory jobs in the entire region. There are some food industry factories, all pretty small. That is basically all I can think of.

Okay, a few people have been mentioning Oakland. Is Oakland that much cheaper to live in than San Francisco is? Also, what is the population of Oakland, and how long will it take me on BART to get to downtown SF?

Much cheaper. From almost anywhere in the entire city is a 30 minute BART ride to downtown SF or less. There area about 400k people.

1 bedroom apt in a decent area in SF: ~$2000+
1 bedroom apt in a decent area in Oakland: ~$900-1100