San Francisco v. New York (or other options) for African-American female (Oakland: neighborhoods, primary school)

[trueblueshea]

What I've observed (and I think she'd agree) is that race doesn't play as determining a role in the Bay Area as it is back east.

Wrong! Yes, there is classism back east. But is based off of blue-blood vs non blue-blood. 99% of white folks wouldn't make the cut either. I know plenty of black consultants, programmers and people on Wall Street and no one bats an eyelash.

If you want me to be honest, in San Francisco, I think the racism comes from the Asian population more than it does the white population. The Asians who move to California have a very limited exposure to blacks whereas New York, Seattle, etc are melting pots so even though there are places sectioned off, everyone still interacts. I haven't faced much blatant racism from Asians in New York or Chicago, but the ones in California (North and South) have been overly exposed to American media which casts blacks in a negative light. The Asians on the east coast seem to understand institutionalized racism and know what's going on.

I am including Indians when I say Asians as well.

There is a new money mentality on the west coast and American blacks are not included although America was built off of the backs of poor white farmers, blacks and Native-American bloodshed. To be VERY fair, for the most part, poor whites (I mean actually poor, not lower-middle class) are very rarely included either.
I can explain the historical aspects of why (but I shouldn't have to) Africans are included though, if they so choose

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by trueblueshea

I am including Indians when I say Asians as well.

In my experience, there is a lot of racism from Indians to whites as well.

I'm also surprised you keep referring to Seattle as a melting pot. New York, I would agree. Seattle, not so much. It seems much more white and less diverse than the Bay Area in general.

[04kL4nD]

So is anyone besides jade going to back me up on Oakland being a good alternative to SF, or is everyone just going to ignore these comments and keep piling on SF?

[citylove101]

SF itself is very diverse, but the racial mix is very different from Northeastern or Southern cities because the share of the black population is so low, while the share of the Asian population is much higher. So working and living in the city itself can feel isolating if you aren't used to an atmosphere where you're often the only one, or maybe one of the only two. Moreover, from what I've seen (and heard in my conversations there on recent trips) the middle-class black population of San Franciso also appears to be shrinking, which could make being there doubly isolating, from both a class viewpoint and a racial one.

Obviously if you're in info tech the Bay Area is a good place to be. No one I spoke to mentioned anything like experiencing overt racial hostility in the city, however -- just more of a vague sense of isolation and weirdness, especially if they were from back east, like Chicago or New York or DC. And that occasional sense of feeling either out-of-place or on display in certain work or social situations.

Yet when I was in Oakland it was indeed a very different vibe because of a combination, it seemed to me of its significantly larger black population -- which ranged from very poor to middle-class to wealthy -- something of a hipster/blipster scene, and the tech businesses as well. (I never knew that Pandora had its headquarters there.) It was also interesting to me that many people, black,white, asian and hispanic, seemed so proud to be from Oakland. Maybe they were overcompensating, but it was, again, a very different "vibe" than I felt in San francisco.

But I have no idea if the mix in Oakland will stay as it is. Evidently the city is becoming more expensive, and many black families there have already left, even as the population has grown. I think that OP might enjoy Oakland, however, especially if she lived near the right public transit to get to her job.

[MauiPartTimer]

Originally Posted by trueblueshea

Wrong! Yes, there is classism back east. But is based off of blue-blood vs non blue-blood. 99% of white folks wouldn't make the cut either. I know plenty of black consultants, programmers and people on Wall Street and no one bats an eyelash.

If you want me to be honest, in San Francisco, I think the racism comes from the Asian population more than it does the white population. The Asians who move to California have a very limited exposure to blacks whereas New York, Seattle, etc are melting pots so even though there are places sectioned off, everyone still interacts. I haven't faced much blatant racism from Asians in New York or Chicago, but the ones in California (North and South) have been overly exposed to American media which casts blacks in a negative light. The Asians on the east coast seem to understand institutionalized racism and know what's going on.

I am including Indians when I say Asians as well.

There is a new money mentality on the west coast and American blacks are not included although America was built off of the backs of poor white farmers, blacks and Native-American bloodshed. To be VERY fair, for the most part, poor whites (I mean actually poor, not lower-middle class) are very rarely included either.
I can explain the historical aspects of why (but I shouldn't have to) Africans are included though, if they so choose

So you spent one week in SF and you're an expert on the Bay Area. Good for you, but now I'm left wondering why you came here asking your original question since you already seem to think you know everything. I tried to be helpful, but now am starting to agree with others that you arrived here with a chip on your shoulder.

I'm out.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

While I can't speak of your situation specifically, I have worked with folks with African American decent in various companies I've been at in different parts of the Bay Area. I never saw any "so-called" discrimination. If anything, companies I've been at have been bending over backwards to assist women and minorities. There have been various clubs at my companies for essentially all ethnic groups and formalized mentorship programs for women and minorities. If anything, as a white male, I've been the only group at my companies that hasn't had a separate club catering to folks with my background.

While the "old boys club" probably still exists in pockets, I think it is overblown here in the Bay Area by and large. I've had certain African American co-workers that have complained about discrimination. However, from what I've observed, the pushback that they've received has been due to them not having the proper skillset and is no different than what I've observed from people of other races (including white) who have also not had the skillset to excel in their roles.

By the way, I've also worked with brilliant high performers of all races, including African Americans. I've never heard any of these top performers complaining about discrimination in the workplace.

Nothing personal, but your black colleagues are not going to share takes of microagressions and worse behavior with you. It is also really easy to be oblivious of the privilege you do have at work. I'll share a story that happened a few days ago. A colleague had a visitor to the office and was giving her a tour. I was washing my coffee cup before I went home. Like many offices, we have a kitchen full of dishes at the end of the day. We also have cleaners come and straighten up.

Well after getting the quick introduction, the visitor commented "you have lots of dishes to wash tonight!"

Here is what does happen at work, no matter how "talented" you are. People are fast to assume you are an admin or cleaner or other role till proven otherwise. When a white guy walks up, the assumption is you are in a professional managerial role.

We like to think the Bay Area is a liberal utopia, but it is not. What is different than in other parts of the country, once you prove you "belong" no one cares. But at the outset it is assumed you do not.

[Bonez765]

Originally Posted by NewbiePoster

Lighten up, dude. The OP said she'd only been to SF once for a visit, and it sounds like she spent her time checking out the city, not running all over the East Bay. You sound in serious need of a chill pill.

OP, there's a lot more to the Bay Area than SF. If you can spend some time in Berkeley and Oakland (best nightlife in Oakland!), it might help you decide on whether to take or leave any job potential in the area.

Listen, I get Moderator cut: inappropriate language annoyed whenever I read people thinking their race will be a handicap everywhere they go. I read it on all forums I have been in and I trash people for that because it cries to me sensitive person with no skin and being not socialized right. Now, if this was the 1950s USA with Jim Crow laws, I can understand but it's 2015, not 1955.

[kttam186290]

Originally Posted by jade408

Nothing personal, but your black colleagues are not going to share takes of microagressions and worse behavior with you. It is also really easy to be oblivious of the privilege you do have at work. I'll share a story that happened a few days ago. A colleague had a visitor to the office and was giving her a tour. I was washing my coffee cup before I went home. Like many offices, we have a kitchen full of dishes at the end of the day. We also have cleaners come and straighten up.

.

Ahhh...Here come the Sociology 101 and Black Studies buzzwords: "microagression", "privilege".

Was wondering when they were going to rear their ugly little heads...? Didn't take long for the Oaklandites to trot them out

"White privilege" is an excuse made by dysfunctional people to try to explain their own shortcomings, low impulse-control and lack of future-time orientation.

To me, the REAL "privilege" is being able to constantly get into trouble and mess everything up and always have a scapegoat (i.e. "white people", "white privilege") to fall back on and blame for it. No other group in America is afforded this luxury of irresponsibility and blame, except black people...

[04kL4nD]

Oh geez. Are you for real? Maybe YOU should take Sociology 101 again. Or for the for the first time. Whichever.

[kttam186290]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

Oh geez. Are you for real? Maybe YOU should take Sociology 101 again. Or for the for the first time. Whichever.

No, it's nothing more than a low-paying garbage major for people who have a need to feel aggrieved.