Oakland A's Attendance Woes Featured in Chronicle Today (Pleasanton, Montclair: crimes, unemployment)

[UPT Oakland]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Let's see my argument: "The A's are a failed team. They can't even fill up the stadium they have, no one wants to see them, and they are basically a welfare team. Investors would rather burn their money in a garbage can than invest into a JLS stadium."

The Oakland Crew argument: "If we build a $300 million dollar stadium in JLS, despite any sound fiscal advice or business fundamentals, I think we can recoup any money invested and more. Please ignore that our city just went through a highly destructive riot, and that we have the highest violent crime rate in the state. Thanks!"

Nobody takes you serious because your gimmick is to hate all things Oakland. If the A's were in the Giants place you'd still find a way to bash the team. You're a joke and nobody will take anything you have to say about anything Oakland related serious.

[llowllevellowll]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Let's see my argument: "The A's are a failed team. They can't even fill up the stadium they have, no one wants to see them, and they are basically a welfare team. Investors would rather burn their money in a garbage can than invest into a JLS stadium."

The Oakland Crew argument: "If we build a $300 million dollar stadium in JLS, despite any sound fiscal advice or business fundamentals, I think we can recoup any money invested and more. Please ignore that our city just went through a highly destructive riot, and that we have the highest violent crime rate in the state. Thanks!"

Your points of view would be respected and appreciated if you didn't take each point to the absolute extreme every time. I find in life there is a great deal of middle ground and gray area.

Problems with your logic:

1. The A's are as much a failed organization as the San Francisco Giants were. The comparisons are evident: both played in stadiums placed in horrible neighborhoods far from its base, both stadiums were disgusting and almost uninhabitable, both teams are/were mediocre, BUT one team received a new, smaller stadium within arms lengths of many of their fans. The attendance issues are past history. For some reason, the A's fans are demonized for doing the same thing the Giants fans did: they didn't attend many games in a deplorable stadium with zero amenities far from where they lived.

San Francisco Giants Attendance in the Final Year of Candlestick Park (Hunter's Point): 17,456.

Oakland Athletics Attendance last season: 17,392 - the lowest the A's have had since 2001 which averaged 26,000 fans per game on average in the 8 seasons that preceded it.

Again: This isn't an issue UNIQUE to Oakland. It is an issue with having a ballpark sitting in the middle of a filthy industrial park, far from the lives where baseball fans reside. It's a problem with having the worst ballpark in the majors with no amenities.

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How much does the city and local businesses recoup from well-placed sporting investments? Quite a bit. Right now my home city of Cleveland is bracing for a $20-40 million dollar loss PER YEAR based on the loss of Lebron James. Sound ridiculous? It does, but it's also the difference between people not going to the games, not spending money at local bars and restaurants, not buying jerseys, not watching the games on Fox Sports Ohio and STO.

NBA home games: 41.

MLB home games: 81 with a higher attendance potential

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Welfare team: You stole this from a poster who got slammed on every other point they brought up. By your logic, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Florida, Tampa Bay, Milwaukee, Texas, Baltimore, Minnesota, et al. also shouldn't receive baseball stadiums because they're all welfare teams too. The problem is non-baseball fans who try to make baseball opinions don't have context to their viewpoints.

Lastly, just in case you weren't aware since you don't live here, the riots weren't destructive - they lasted one night and as I just drove through yesterday, everyone that expected bad had boarded up and the damage was minimal. It should also be noted that most of the 78 people arrested that night WEREN'T FROM OAKLAND - and again, little damage was actually done as far as I could see. In fact, I didn't see any just two days later.

P.S. Oakland doesn't have the highest crime rate in California. I predict a shedding away of its bad rap in the decades to come. You can agree to disagree but I envision a continuing process of middle/upper class movement into more affordable enclaves of the Bay Area - including Oakland as well as the powers that be making way for things such as more downtown amenities, more highrise condominiums, etc.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Translation: "If you give us a few hundred million dollars, Oakland can build a brand new stadium in JLS, and we might not lose all of your money... maybe."

Not exactly a resounding vision statement for potential investors.

Translation: Oakland is in a similar situation that a lot of cities that built new stadiums were in. SD and SF brought back fans with a new stadium despite crappy teams.

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Says the guy from "San Diego".

I was born and raised in the Bay Area and it's where all my family is from. I know the bay a lot better than you can ever pretend to. Unlike you I post in here b/c I actually know stuff about the area, not to troll and attract attention cuz I'm lonely and pathetic.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by NorCal Dude

Well hes from Walnut Creek, which according to my friends who grew up in richmond and berkeley, might as well NOT be the bay area, as it more resembles other inland valleys in ca, and does not resemble silicon valley, the penninsula, the east bay ie what most people consider " the bay".

But really where you are from has nothing to do with this.

Walnut Creek resembles Silicon Valley and the Peninsula and much of the East Bay a lot more than Richmond or Berkeley do. It's educated, wealthy, and safe so obviously it's not gonna resemble Richmond and has little in common with other inland valleys in CA, it's very much a typical Bay Area suburb.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by sav858

Translation: Oakland is in a similar situation that a lot of cities that built new stadiums were in. SD and SF brought back fans with a new stadium despite crappy teams.

Wrong. The Oakland's Athletics don't have a Barry Bonds or any other popular/polarizing figure to put people into seats.

I was born and raised in the Bay Area

None of that matters, you currently don't have an address in the area.

[UPT Oakland]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Wrong. The Oakland's Athletics don't have a Barry Bonds or any other popular/polarizing figure to put people into seats.



None of that matters, you currently don't have an address in the area.

Barry Bonds retired several years ago you fool. They have no Power hitters on their team and have not had one since he left. Yet they get heavy attendance at Pac Bell.

You never lived in the Bay Area or even been here troll.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Wrong. The Oakland's Athletics don't have a Barry Bonds or any other popular/polarizing figure to put people into seats.

And what superstar of Bonds caliber pulled fans to Petco Park? Also Bonds was on the Giants well before At&T Park was built and it still sells out plenty despite his departure. Another bad argument there, one of many and more to come I'm sure.

None of that matters, you currently don't have an address in the area.

Actually I do and I'll moving back there at the end of August. You just say that to try to rationalize your pathetic trolling about an area you know very little about but pretend to.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by Puddy4LyF

The A's are as much a failed organization as the San Francisco Giants were.

Problems with your logic:

1) Barry Bonds - His homerun antics 2000-2006 was one of the most exciting and polarizing chases in the league during that stretch. Oakland doesn't have a figure quite so captivating.

2) In 1999, the S.F Giants were still selling 25,000 seats a game, not selling out, but filling up 75% of the seats. The A's can't even reach 50% of capacity, big difference.

3) The SF Giants reached the Playoffs in 2000, and the World Series in 2002. This no doubt lead to increased attendance. The Athletics have not had the same success and are in the bottom third of the league right now.

Right now my home city of Cleveland is bracing for a $20-40 million dollar loss PER YEAR based on the loss of Lebron James

. Exactly my point (#1) above. Oakland has no star power. SF did.

NBA home games: 41.
MLB home games: 81 with a higher attendance potential

This means nothing if the team sucks and no one cares what they do. Just ask the Clippers.

Welfare team: You stole this from a poster who got slammed on every other point they brought up. By your logic, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Florida, Tampa Bay, Milwaukee, Texas, Baltimore, Minnesota, et al. also shouldn't receive baseball stadiums because they're all welfare teams too. The problem is non-baseball fans who try to make baseball opinions don't have context to their viewpoints.

The point is not any less valid. The Athletics are a welfare team that don't generate enough revenue by themselves. Why would a potential investor want to risk money, especially in this economy, on a long shot like the A's?

Lastly, just in case you weren't aware since you don't live here, the riots weren't destructive - they lasted one night and as I just drove through yesterday, everyone that expected bad had boarded up and the damage was minimal. It should also be noted that [b]most of the 78 people arrested that night WEREN'T FROM OAKLAND

$20,000,000 in estimated damage, over a dozen stores looted. 78 people didn't do all the looting, most of it was local aka OAKLAND RESIDENTS.

P.S. Oakland doesn't have the highest crime rate in California.

This is simply wrong and misinformed:
Pleasanton Weekly : Oakland has 3rd highest crime rate in U.S. CQ Press reports

Oakland has the 3rd highest crime rate in the country and the highest in the state. That may change for 2010, but for 2009, that's where the stats landed.

Now, what investor would throw money into a crime ridden city that suffers from debilitating riots?

What if Oakland does get a stadium? What will stop Oakland thugs from rioting every time the A's make the playoffs? As someone who is heavily involved in angel/venture capitalism for micro/small cap companies, these are questions I know I would ask, and a lot of my very wealthy friends would also ask.

See the problem is you have no experience in venture capitalism which is why you don't understand why a JLS stadium has no chance of being funded by private investors.

[UPT Oakland]

LOL @ 25,000 being 75% of candlesticks seating. What a moron.

[llowllevellowll]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Problems with your logic:

1) Barry Bonds - His homerun antics 2000-2006 was one of the most exciting and polarizing chases in the league during that stretch. Oakland doesn't have a figure quite so captivating.

2) In 1999, the S.F Giants were still selling 25,000 seats a game, not selling out, but filling up 75% of the seats. The A's can't even reach 50% of capacity, big difference.

3) The SF Giants reached the Playoffs in 2000, and the World Series in 2002. This no doubt lead to increased attendance. The Athletics have not had the same success and are in the bottom third of the league right now.

1) The Giants haven't had Barry Bonds OR a playoff team in what, 3 or 4 years now? So why, according to your logic, are they selling 35,000 seats a game to see a BAD TEAM?

2) 25,000 at Candlestick ISN'T 75% of capacity.

3) The A's have been to the playoffs since 2000 as well - and they're poised to make a run next season and the years after as well. The A's right now stand as less of a disappointment this season than the Giants do.

There is literally no difference between the two franchises except that a) the Giants have a nice, new stadiums and partially because of it - more revenue and the A's don't.

You know, you can still hate Oakland but have an honest, accurate opinion about a baseball team. I hate the city of Boston but respect the Boston Celtics.

P.S. Are you going to watch Moneyball when it comes out? If anyone is bored at the end of July/early August, they need extra's down at the Coliseum - they'll be reenacting the 2002 season.

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