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So what exactly did you expect? Did you expect all the white women in TX to instantly fall in love with you the way they do in Bollywood films or did you expect them to perform a dance routine with you out in the parking lot????
I have gotten more polite service in TX than anywhere else and I am not white! I just expect service workers to do their job efficiently and thats all! And it is ridiculous to say that you will be treated differently on a daily basis just because of your race.
lol... never having watched too much of bollywood, I had no such expectations about TX.. but its wierd that you automatically presume that just because I'm Indian, I not only watch that stuff but also expect my life to echo it.
Its funny but I didnt expect people to behave the way darkone described of his silicon valley experiences... the similarities are striking.
Anyway, its all in the past and it doesn't matter.. I think I'm fortunate to come to Bay Area, truly a paradise of diversity.
Each one has his/her own expereinces.. if you really like TX so much, please go and live there for a few years, particularly in rural areas.
I know Indian people were denied entry into bars, asked to get out of bars, beaten up with baseball bats till they suffered multiple fractures and racially heckled in the worst language - all in educated college towns..
Also, maybe some urban areas of Texas might be nicer, but then again I made it a point to go on trips while I was there only with my WHITE friends (mostly european) and it made it a whole lot easier on me as well.
The day I left TX was the happiest day of my life.. I'm glad to have left that horrible place and will never go back, am happy with my modest salary, beautiful wife and a town that treats me well..
That story shows what a cheap, two-bit racist and a hyper touchy sissy jerk you yourself are...
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
On one hand, you crib about being discriminated for being black.. on the other hand, you don't mind handing out racist insults to people because of their national origin.
Please do yourself a favor and stick to your ghettos.. you cant earn respect by team tagging with racists who use the "M"-word at an Indian.. you think we Indians should be happy and high-five a white racist if he calls you a bloody N**ger ?
I bet then you'd come online and crib about how racist the entire world is, isnt it ?
I'm not a nasty degenerate, so no I would never instigate this sort of situation. But if you want to play with fire, I'm there b[tch. I am not black btw and I am lighter than most of you Indians. I fight fire with fire. You made no comment on how what that guy did was wrong, so I imagine you condone his actions.
You bring up the N word quite easily I see. It's just a word so don't think you've touched me in anyway you might have intended. boo hoo. Now if you have something personal with me then don't hide behind the N word and come right out and say it like a man and stop cowering like that guy who was called macaca. I understand in India and it's caste system has lighter people of being of more value in society. So being I am most likely lighter than you, you better kneel, catch your tongue and show some homage to your superior.
Word of warning. Don't come to New Jersey with that attitude. You will be stomped on my friend. I see your rebuttle included a white guy coming at me. Shows your probable existence of living under the "Rod of white power". In that case, I must tell you 95% of white people in America would side with me everytime. Did that hurt? Must have. I'm 1/2 white German btw. So attacking me racially is a waste of time pal. I hope your no sissy. I'm always here though.
Good luck....as$ hole.....
All due respect to the rest of you here. This guy is truely a tool though...
Yeah well good schools, good weather, sane politically moderate people, and low crime must not feel like the inner east bay and that's a GOOD thing.
Yeah because that only exists in "inner east bay" Antioch & Pittsburg are just perfect places with no crime and good schools. Good weather? The weather out there sucks, 120 degree summers. Yeah real nice. As for politics, that's all relative to your beliefs. Not sure what makes them anymore "Sane" than any other political climate, the rest of the bay area is not one big Berkeley. Then again you think everybody should have the same political beliefs, conservative.
I think it's telling that this discussion is focusing more on denying Darksunone's experience and less on the subtle racism that exists in our community. Darksunone made some good points about the way black men are judged by their appearance in public spaces- people grabbing their purses, reaching for cell phones, avoidance in elevators, etc. These points were obscured by his more grievous claims about being snubbed when trying to actually interact with women, which may involve more than just his appearance.
The racism I see and experience in the Bay Area is not the overt racism I've experienced elsewhere. But it's still racism. Of course I'm speaking generally, as not everyone is racist, but I believe that most people are to one degree or another. I'm racist. If I'm walking down International Blvd. at 11 pm and I see two young black men coming my way, I feel and prepare myself differently than if they were two white guys.
It's a hard thing to admit, but it's the truth. But defense mechanisms are powerful. People don't want to admit that they're racist, and may in fact believe that they're not when they actually are. This of course makes it difficult to address the problem, since for many it seems not to exist, at least not to the extent that some wildly claim. So it's not really surprising that no one has responded to the charges of subtle racism in this thread.
When I talk with my sister and her friends, and some other women friends, they say that these protective gestures with a cell phone, digging through their purse, grabbing their earrings, etc. are almost a reflexive behavior- they've been doing it since they were little girls.
What's interesting is that upon deeper reflection, they acknowledge that there's a discriminatory element to their actions. Women, in general, process environmental cues much faster and more comprehensively than men. They size things up and take appropriate action with blindingly fast dexterity. The question is, what criteria is used to make these decisons?
I think it's telling that this discussion is focusing more on denying Darksunone's experience and less on the subtle racism that exists in our community. Darksunone made some good points about the way black men are judged by their appearance in public spaces- people grabbing their purses, reaching for cell phones, avoidance in elevators, etc. These points were obscured by his more grievous claims about being snubbed when trying to actually interact with women, which may involve more than just his appearance.
The racism I see and experience in the Bay Area is not the overt racism I've experienced elsewhere. But it's still racism. Of course I'm speaking generally, as not everyone is racist, but I believe that most people are to one degree or another. I'm racist. If I'm walking down International Blvd. at 11 pm and I see two young black men coming my way, I feel and prepare myself differently than if they were two white guys.
It's a hard thing to admit, but it's the truth. But defense mechanisms are powerful. People don't want to admit that they're racist, and may in fact believe that they're not when they actually are. This of course makes it difficult to address the problem, since for many it seems not to exist, at least not to the extent that some wildly claim. So it's not really surprising that no one has responded to the charges of subtle racism in this thread.
When I talk with my sister and her friends, and some other women friends, they say that these protective gestures with a cell phone, digging through their purse, grabbing their earrings, etc. are almost a reflexive behavior- they've been doing it since they were little girls.
What's interesting is that upon deeper reflection, they acknowledge that there's a discriminatory element to their actions. Women, in general, process environmental cues much faster and more comprehensively than men. They size things up and take appropriate action with blindingly fast dexterity. The question is, what criteria is used to make these decisons?
What is this? It's like people just woke up and found out racism exists. None of that is unique to the Bay Area it happens in EVERY city in America. You'll hear the same thing about the crossing the street and clutching of the purse in Barber shops in New Jersey, New York, Philly, Boston, Atlanta, everywhere.
This is not a Bay Area phenomenon. All so called "Liberal" cities have different forms of racism. New York, SF, Oakland, Boston, are similar in that respect it's not overt in most cases. Boston is the most racist city I have been to yet it's not at the point where I would rant like these two have been doing in some self pity that is a gross exaggeration. It's like they want everybody to like them or something. I could give a flying F*** about a racist female or some other person. For every racist there are 100 people who are not racist.
So what does it matter? They seem mad that some whites or Asians don't like them. Why do they care so much? Why are they so sensitive, the stuff my father & mother tells me about during the civil rights movement, now that right there would have them probably committing suicide. The stuff they and most black men including myself and females, will experience in today's world is trivial petty BS and not worth getting worked up over unless it impedes life progress which in most cases it does not. They let these losers have power over their emotions. That is the sign of a weak ass person.
I'm not a nasty degenerate, so no I would never instigate this sort of situation. But if you want to play with fire, I'm there b[tch. I am not black btw and I am lighter than most of you Indians. I fight fire with fire. You made no comment on how what that guy did was wrong, so I imagine you condone his actions.
You bring up the N word quite easily I see. It's just a word so don't think you've touched me in anyway you might have intended. boo hoo. Now if you have something personal with me then don't hide behind the N word and come right out and say it like a man and stop cowering like that guy who was called macaca. I understand in India and it's caste system has lighter people of being of more value in society. So being I am most likely lighter than you, you better kneel, catch your tongue and show some homage to your superior.
Word of warning. Don't come to New Jersey with that attitude. You will be stomped on my friend. I see your rebuttle included a white guy coming at me. Shows your probable existence of living under the "Rod of white power". In that case, I must tell you 95% of white people in America would side with me everytime. Did that hurt? Must have. I'm 1/2 white German btw. So attacking me racially is a waste of time pal. I hope your no sissy. I'm always here though.
Good luck....as$ hole.....
All due respect to the rest of you here. This guy is truely a tool though...
lol.. wait a minute.. till the other moment you were cribbing about how you got racially discriminated due to your dark skin color in silicon valley by Indian people.
Now you claim that you are in fact LIGHTER than most Indians and point out how pathetic we Indians are due to our DARK skin color... umm.. isnt that supposed to be... er.. Racis... ???
And yet you claim you get "evil eye" from Indians... so you got the eye coz you were WHITER than them or for NOT being 100% white ? If that is the case, white people should be getting it from us all the time, isnt it ?? why arent they complaining ?
lol.. Its obvious that you are lying.. I dont even have to point out the logical inconsistency of your rant against Indians.
Perhaps its jealousy or inferiority complex thats driving your hatred against us, but thats perhaps best left to a shrink and yourself to sort it out..
But as a stranger who only wishes you well, my advice is to please get off those drugs, consult a shrink and get a job
Coming to the broader issue of Indians and caste system.. well, its not as cut and dried as mere skin color would dictate Caste as our friend from the ghetto describes.
What foreigners dont understand is that Caste is neither "race" nor "class".. It has nothing to do with skin color or wealth.. it has to do with "birth".. you can be rich/poor white/black.. so there are dark skinned, poor people who can also belong to the highest caste.. and light skinned, rich people who can belong to lower castes. Majority of India (except North India from where our movie stars come from) is Ebony anyway so skin color has never been associated with Caste in the minds of most Indians.
Caste system is a seriously retarded and outdated system but please note that there were such systems all over Asia in medieval era.. even in Japan, there were untouchable people and high caste people even though they all looked alike.. of course Japan modernized and integrated them into society.. Indian govt is also doing that... currently we have the world's toughest affirmation action policy that reserves up to 50% of seats in educational institutions, jobs and even promotions within jobs to people from lower castes.. govt does reverse discrimination against upper castes in order to bring equality.
Coming to the issue of white skin preference, its a hangover remnant of British colonialism. Indians, like all other non-white people (including hispanics, asians and blacks) suffer from sense of favoritism towards lighter skin due to being lorded over by white masters for a few centuries in the past... just look at our bollywood movies, they just pick either those with the lightest skin color or those who have very caucasian facial features.
In reality, Black and Indian people share a lot of burden of colonial white man's brutality towards those who are different from him.. The only people who suffered worse than us are Native Americans who have been wiped out and integrated into white society at the expense of their language, culture and beliefs.
But the difference between us and black people is, we retained our culture, religion and civilization.. Prior to Britishers, there was 700 years of Islamic rule.. yet, we survived that and retained our religion... On the other hand, black people have no civilization of their own left as they have been either Islamized or christianized even back in Africa... and those who were brought as slaves to the west were regarded as "untermenschen" in white society through brutal policies of apartheid and slavery even to this day (inspite of a biracial president and all).
And today many aspects of Indian culture - like Yoga, Meditation, Vegetarianism, Spiritualism, Respect for nature and even Buddhism are appreciated by western people as well.. just hope this trend continues and Indians can live with their own culture with dignity and hope black people rediscover their ancestral roots in Africa... and hope all non-white people gain freedom from being mentally enslaved by notions of inferiority towards white skin.
thors ^^^ thanks for posting that, good read. Interesting about the dynamics of India.
My pleasure.. actually a recent census shows that majority of those belonging to the highest caste (priests) are in dire poverty and working as daily wage laborers in north India and domestic cooks in south India.
Caste system is very much alive but in a very distorted way than it was conceived.. it was conceived as a system to produce the best intellectuals, best warriors and best artisans for a given society and it had its own checks and balances to ensure that no caste becomes too arrogant and abuses its powers.. for instance, even though the priests were at the topmost of the society, they were denied the right to own property or wealth, nor eat meat nor take up arms.. they had to beg from house to house for their daily food - it was meant to check any intellectual arrogance they would otherwise have. Similarly, Kings and warriors were given a second rung status in society, below the priests, so that they would not feel too arrogant or drunk with power of authority and always heard those of an intellectual disposition. Likewise there were checks and balances for artisans and merchants on how much they could own and how much they had to contribute to the state.
That system was probably good for an earlier era.
Today, whichever caste (you can think of it as a large clique/tribe of people who only marry among themselves) has the most muscle power and land, becomes the dominant or highest caste in the village.
Though the official version of Indian govt is simplistic - that certain castes traditionally designated as "upper castes" are the ones who are practicing discrimination against traditionally designed "lower" castes... the reality is any caste that is powerful now declares itself as an upper caste.
The people who belong traditionally to the intellectual/priestly classes are therefore at the bottom of the society along with the untouchables - as they have no muscle power (they were supposed to be vegetarian from birth) or wealth (they were not supposed to own any money and relied on donations from other castes for subsistence). As such many have given up their traditional religious professions and try their best to emigrate to other countries. Then there are other people who are also affected by the rot in the system who aspire to come abroad as their ticket to fairness and redemption.
But a good thing to note is, caste system has almost disappeared from cities and metroes.. its still lingering on in villages, but it will also change hopefully before the turn of this century.
lol.. wait a minute.. till the other moment you were cribbing about how you got racially discriminated due to your dark skin color in silicon valley by Indian people.
Now you claim that you are in fact LIGHTER than most Indians and point out how pathetic we Indians are due to our DARK skin color... umm.. isnt that supposed to be... er.. Racis... ???
And yet you claim you get "evil eye" from Indians... so you got the eye coz you were WHITER than them or for NOT being 100% white ? If that is the case, white people should be getting it from us all the time, isnt it ?? why arent they complaining ?
lol.. Its obvious that you are lying.. I dont even have to point out the logical inconsistency of your rant against Indians.
Perhaps its jealousy or inferiority complex thats driving your hatred against us, but thats perhaps best left to a shrink and yourself to sort it out..
But as a stranger who only wishes you well, my advice is to please get off those drugs, consult a shrink and get a job
Coming to the broader issue of Indians and caste system.. well, its not as cut and dried as mere skin color would dictate Caste as our friend from the ghetto describes.
What foreigners dont understand is that Caste is neither "race" nor "class".. It has nothing to do with skin color or wealth.. it has to do with "birth".. you can be rich/poor white/black.. so there are dark skinned, poor people who can also belong to the highest caste.. and light skinned, rich people who can belong to lower castes. Majority of India (except North India from where our movie stars come from) is Ebony anyway so skin color has never been associated with Caste in the minds of most Indians.
Caste system is a seriously retarded and outdated system but please note that there were such systems all over Asia in medieval era.. even in Japan, there were untouchable people and high caste people even though they all looked alike.. of course Japan modernized and integrated them into society.. Indian govt is also doing that... currently we have the world's toughest affirmation action policy that reserves up to 50% of seats in educational institutions, jobs and even promotions within jobs to people from lower castes.. govt does reverse discrimination against upper castes in order to bring equality.
Coming to the issue of white skin preference, its a hangover remnant of British colonialism. Indians, like all other non-white people (including hispanics, asians and blacks) suffer from sense of favoritism towards lighter skin due to being lorded over by white masters for a few centuries in the past... just look at our bollywood movies, they just pick either those with the lightest skin color or those who have very caucasian facial features.
In reality, Black and Indian people share a lot of burden of colonial white man's brutality towards those who are different from him.. The only people who suffered worse than us are Native Americans who have been wiped out and integrated into white society at the expense of their language, culture and beliefs.
But the difference between us and black people is, we retained our culture, religion and civilization.. Prior to Britishers, there was 700 years of Islamic rule.. yet, we survived that and retained our religion... On the other hand, black people have no civilization of their own left as they have been either Islamized or christianized even back in Africa... and those who were brought as slaves to the west were regarded as "untermenschen" in white society through brutal policies of apartheid and slavery even to this day (inspite of a biracial president and all).
And today many aspects of Indian culture - like Yoga, Meditation, Vegetarianism, Spiritualism, Respect for nature and even Buddhism are appreciated by western people as well.. just hope this trend continues and Indians can live with their own culture with dignity and hope black people rediscover their ancestral roots in Africa... and hope all non-white people gain freedom from being mentally enslaved by notions of inferiority towards white skin.
Oh my Indian friend, you are truely a coward behind your computer screen. The thing with the Indian guy happened in New Jersey numb nuts. I hardly got discrimination in the Bay by Indians, there where a few but there aren't many Indians in Oakland. You can all meditate and stick vegetables up your a$$$ all you want. Most of America (or the world for that matter) really gives a **** about vegetarianism or yoga. Regardless if colonialism was the cause for your caste syste, it still exists to this day even though the Brits are long gone. You pointed out the bollywood movies right? I really dont give a crap about other places that might of had caste systems because the racial elements you instigated here included Indians and Blacks(as you most disgustingly used the N word to describe). I told you what a white guy said against the idiot Indian guy, it wasn't me. Attack him. Wait a minute, he's white and you know better. Don't try and act like your not on the white staff b[tch.
All of a sudden you bring up the suffering of various ethnic groups in the past including blacks. Of course this was done right after you attacked me with the N word. You are hypocrite incarnate. I said I was darker(not white) without a foreign accent. There aren't many people in the Bay Area like that so I suppose the people only needed to realize I wasn't white and that was enough to be displeased with my existence. I'm not going tit for tat with you about my skin color. You sound like a little b[tch about it actually. Here's you in my eyes...
WAAA WAAA I have proof you said you where dark before so how can you say your lighter than me. WAAA WAAAA. Don't try and say your not black because then I look like an idiot.. WAAA WAAAA.
Your recant of history has absolutely no importance here as this exchange is between my superiority over your inept childish and hypocritic wailing. Go get an eneme or something. Let it go as you really should stop complaining about the white guy saying the word macaca as reported by me. I never said the white guy should of used the word, although I'm glad that racist throw-back got a dose of his own medicine.
I almost married an Indian girly named Dyvia(I was her first). She was the most dedicated and supportive girl friend I had ever had. So thinking I hate Indians is a last ditch desperate move on your part. I would bet that face to face you wouldn't be so full of yourself.
Say what you want, but I know your a waste of a human being. Go back to India at least you won't have to deal with ******s like me anymore.
thors ^^^ thanks for posting that, good read. Interesting about the dynamics of India.
Your black and you're complimenting this guy. You realize he used the N word to attack me. I don't care if you agree with what I'm saying or not, are you Uncle Tim or Tom. I have noticed you are very apt at only making posts that are adversarial in nature. Take a chill pill dude. Your like the Patty Hearst of Oakland. Except Oakland is your kidnapper.
New Jersey isn't perfect. If you tell me something negative about New Jersey, I'm not gonna go into a toddler hissy fit about it. Oakland and the Bay Area isn't perfect. If you don't think racism is bad there then good for you, your a lucky brother.
The thing that confuses me is that you really view the Bay Area through rose colored glasses yet seem strangely overly ansy to go into negative arguements with everybody. If you wish to not see the bad then why are you so quick to point out the bad in what everyone else is saying especially when those things are mere opinions? I'm not saying I don't go after people when I deem it fruitful, but I ain't the hypocrite type.
I'll be interested to see which face I'll be communicating with if you feel contrite to respond to this. Good luck buddy....
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. Now if you have something personal with me then don't hide behind the N word and come right out and say it like a man and stop cowering like that guy who was called macaca. I understand in India and it's caste system has lighter people of being of more value in society. So being I am most likely lighter than you, you better kneel, catch your tongue and show some homage to your superior. 
