Red Tide that bad??? (Clearwater, Sarasota: health, business, island)

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

Warming started after the last Ice Age...that's how all the ice melted...and there were no humans on Earth. Thus, global warming (or cooling) and humans do not possess a direct correlation. Several Ice Ages have come, then melted away, during natural cooling/warming cycles pre-humans.

The same can be said with sea levels. Florida was once underwater...now it's not, and that had nothing to do with humans either.

I think environmentalists place way too much importance upon human civilization. Only if we had an all out nuclear war might I agree with the sky is falling humans are killing the planet crowd.

I think there are so many other things we could, and should, be applying ourselves towards fixing, the environmentalists are causing the misallocation of crucial resources.

See post 587 of this thread debunking this ridiculously dangerous, "Big Lie" prevarication. Mankind is dumping 35 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere annually. It accumulates, magnifying each year the amount of heat trapped in the oceans and atmosphere by greenhouse gases. Why do you think this massive amount of pollution has no negative consequences, despite overwhelming empirical evidence and warnings by climate and marine scientists (ocean acidification, ongoing destruction and extinction of coral species that took thousands of years or much longer to evolve, more intense and destructive hurricanes)?

//www.city-data.com/forum/flori...trophe-59.html

Here's just one link from that post.

https://www.skepticalscience.com/cli...termediate.htm

Now we have startling new research that the oceans have warmed much more than scientists have understood.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...?noredirect=on

Candidly, Florida's coral reef seems doomed. You and the other man-made climate change deniers effectively are responsible for its death, as you've managed to elect the Denier-in-Chief as President, and for several decades belittled the world's scientists who have warned of disaster and put other deniers in positions of power.

As repeatedly discussed in this and other threads, Floridians are beginning to understand what you and your fellow deniers have wrought. E.g., one of the state's leading sea rise experts says the entire state faces accelerating inundation; by the end of the century, much of the state will once again be under water unless we wean ourselves off fossil fuels much more rapidly than seems possible given the influence of deniers on our political system and national debate.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...elizabeth-rush

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

So long as the media and politics remain successful at dividing us, we will never fix anything the right way, or permanently.

You can't possibly be so obtuse as to continue to compare significant changes in our environment in the matter of decades given massive and increasing fossil fuel consumption with changes in the earth's climate due to natural processes over tens of thousands of years if not eons. I can only conclude you're engaging in a campaign of obfuscations and even prevarications in order to advance your partisan viewpoints or financial interests (such as fossil fuel investments).

Having studied the American Civil War intensively, I well know that persons can believe the most obscene things, such as in the fallacious inferiority of a single race of humans justifies unlimited brutality in order to benefit from the race's economic subjugation.

Many Americans finally had enough of what was then called the "Slave Power," that had controlled the national government from its inception. The result was the rise of Lincoln and a Civil War.

Today, I see a similar "Denier Power" in which man-made science deniers control the U.S. and even Florida governments and actually are increasing fossil fuel consumption despite the impassioned warnings of scientists of an ongoing and now obvious environmental disaster.

The media, environmentalists and scientists aren't dividing us. They are just spreading enlightenment as to the consequences of the environmental crisis now facing Florida and mankind. You obviously can't handle it. You don't understand that there is no compromise because there can be no compromise with applied ignorance and greed when the stakes or so high.

Whether this year, two years from now, or a decade from now, the "Denier Power" will be destroyed and cast into the dustbin of historical evils. The only question is whether it will be soon enough to save much of Florida's coastal areas, or even the significant areas of the state just several feet above sea level, from inundation.

It already appears too late for Florida's coral reef, one of the state's greatest natural assets. Own its destruction, even though you seem psychologically unable to do so.

Let's just hope we avoid the destruction of much of the ocean's plankton species and don't see a collapse in the world's oxygen production, nor the emergence of a vicious methane feedback loop, which seems inevitable if we allow the Arctic tundra and deep oceans to continue to warm, resulting in the release of massive amounts of frozen methane.

For "a tomorrow" for Florida and mankind.

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/...219770350.html

[craigiri]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

Cavemen caused the most recent ice age ice to melt. What about all the ones that came prior to that? Aliens?

If you want to deny that's your right.

I think most who study it and see a vast increase in the slope in the last 100 years come to a different conclusion.

https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warmin...g#.W9r23npKgWo
PLs scroll down to figure 6 there - the hockey stick - and explain that to us.

"Atmospheric CO2 levels have risen 30 percent in the last 150 years, with half of that rise occurring only in the last three decades. It is a well-established scientific fact that CO2 (and other gases emitted from industrial and agricultural sources) traps heat in the atmosphere"

Let's at least have a basis in truth. There is something happening at a vastly accelerated rate. It's NOT rocket science although rocket science has confirmed it.

But, really, if you are going to deny reality - just do it. If I believe in black magic or levitation I'm not going to run around and try to convince others of the illogical nature of those things.

[craigiri]

Getting back to red tide......the reality is it is measurably worse than ever before:
http://myfwc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Vi...ec711d16462a72

Look at that - Reds most of the way below and above and on Sarasota - meaning over 100X the decent levels.

Since Sciencem Enginnering or Politics won't help we need to go to the Drum Circle on the Solstice and call on the Great Water Goddess to fix this. Maybe if we party hardy on New Year that will drive it away???

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by craigiri

Since Sciencem Enginnering or Politics won't help we need to go to the Drum Circle on the Solstice and call on the Great Water Goddess to fix this. Maybe if we party hardy on New Year that will drive it away???

Yes, deniers believe that the environment will magically correct itself, according to the Denier-in-Chief and denier posters in this thread.

So, like cavemen, we'd better start not only praying to the Great Water Goddess, but perhaps also start offering sacrifices (I'm certain the Denier-in-Chief could come up with a list of potential victims).

What alternatives exist when belittlement of scientists and rational, though difficult, proactive policies are not options.

[beach43ofus]

I nominate Al Gore to participate in your first ritual.

[beach43ofus]

https://longreads.com/2017/04/13/in-...-consequences/

In 1975, the mainstream media convinced the World that a mini ice age was imminent. Several years later, they recanted and said new information had come in leading them to believe it wasn't cooling, but it was warming.

It's quite possible that years from now, the warming hypothesis will be overturned in similar fashion...new data, new research methodology, new math models. Solar flares, and volcanos may turn out to be underweighted in the current models. Maybe the temps of the Sun are fluctuating which are causing our fluctuations. The more we learn, the more we realize just how much we don't know.

[wondermint2]

Originally Posted by craigiri

Getting back to red tide......the reality is it is measurably worse than ever before:
http://myfwc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Vi...ec711d16462a72

Look at that - Reds most of the way below and above and on Sarasota - meaning over 100X the decent levels.

Since Sciencem Enginnering or Politics won't help we need to go to the Drum Circle on the Solstice and call on the Great Water Goddess to fix this. Maybe if we party hardy on New Year that will drive it away???

I agree looking at that map the red tide situation is not looking good at the moment. I don't think there's been any meaningful evidence presented anywhere that suggests the red tide is dissipating yet. However people with vested interests in seeing red tide dissipate are jumping the gun and claiming "it's getting better". While in actuality the "symptoms" get temporarily better if the winds blow from the East. That's it in a nutshell folks...

[Libertad06]

Originally Posted by FL dreaming

I have officially cancelled my January trip to Casey Key and opted for an East Coast FL stay. I have been following closely and have heard mixed reports on when this situation will end. I'm sure I will still enjoy my FL trip but the Gulf Coast feel will be absent and missed. I'm sorry for all that were and are inconvenienced or worse. ---Robert

Where on the east coast? Plenty of red tide in brevard/vero beaches.

[craigiri]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

I nominate Al Gore to participate in your first ritual.

I have plenty of extra drums......

The big question is which way the wind will be blowing on the Solstice. Any predictions?

[craigiri]

Originally Posted by Libertad06

Where on the east coast? Plenty of red tide in brevard/vero beaches.

Check out that map - it does seem to be abating there and I think (all educated guesses) that it will clear up there FAR before it clears in the Gulf. That's deeper water with more currents and an entire Ocean.

Our Gulf is a small hot tub that too many people went in without showering...if you get the drift.