ANOTHER "UTC area" Restaurant Bites the Dust (Sarasota: lease, buyers)

[FLKitties]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

I don't care for most chain restaurants, so most of the stuff around UTC doesn't interest me. They all buy their food from the same food distrubutors, and much of it is frozen and prepared in advance. Add the higher prices due to higher lease costs, and I dont see any compelling reason to eat at any of them. Convenience is the only thing they have going for them, in my opinion.

That's your choice and I can respect that. Me, I prefer consistency and good food. I don't care whether or not they are a chain so long as they feed me right.

A little story: we had a local breakfast place we really enjoyed going to. Went out of business because they couldn't negotiate a better lease rate. (Apparently the company that owns the property would prefer to let units sit vacant, I'm guessing so they could get a tax write off as most of the units are still vacant years later.) Seemed to do good enough business but I'm guessing that they couldn't really figure out their staffing needs in/out of season to keep costs even. The Bob Evans down the street? PACKED. People standing outside the doors waiting for tables forever during season. It's because you have so many seasonal people and tourists that people are going to stick with what they know for the most part because no one likes trying a new thing only to have spent a lot of money and end up eating crap. Chain restaurants are a known quantity for the most part. Point of the story is that had it been a known chain, the local breakfast place would still be open. That's not to say that local success stories don't exist - they do - but I think most people try to spend their hard-earned dollars on something they know will be good versus taking a chance on an unknown and possibly being disappointed (and hungry) afterward.

I don't necessarily agree that prices are higher at chains than non-chains, however. Higher lease costs are more likely attributed to being in a popular location which of course will not support some mom & pop shops. Only the super amazing ones will thrive because they will grow their business by serving good food at a good price, have good service, and grow through word-of-mouth recommendations & positive reviews. I think what people also forget is that even though something is a chain, I think a number of chain restaurants are actually run by local franchise owners. Take Shipley Donuts in Bradenton, for example. It's a TX-based company but owned by a local couple and you actually see them in the shop.

[Ladywithafan]

Amazing that with all the action around that area whether tourist or not, this is one of the hardest areas for restaurants to survive. Just returned from vacation and ate at the same restaurant in a tourist area, well known for seafood and 28 years later still going strong & we actually had the same waiter that served me 28 years ago....

[Avalon08]

I'm not crazy about chains either, though you gotta hand it to 'em, they have well-oiled machines that serve consistently good meals (e.g., Bonefish Grill). I remember going to Boston on a work trip years ago....we had one night there and asked at the hotel for a restaurant recommendation. Guy suggested Legal Seafood, which I learned later was a chain. Ugh, come on! I don't even remember whether I liked my meal...we had to wait so long for our table, I was drunk by the time we ate.

OP, are you the same poster with a different name who is constantly posting about failed restaurants in the UTC area? I don't get it, it seems like you are gloating about these failures for some reason. I love UTC Mall and certainly am not rooting for anything to fail there!

[Tommygphotos]

I agree with not enjoying MOST chain restaurants. TO ME, they are fine for a Saturday lunch or similar but not a nice dinner out with the wife or friends.

However, I have a feeling once Waterside opens UTC and the restaurants there will be fine. Unless, they put so many places in Waterside that there is no need to go outside the community.

[Ride The WAVE]

Business is difficult no doubt, but some of these establishments deserve to be out of business because they produce a lousy product - that's capitalism - some make it, some don't - it's usually due to their own shortcomings not the buying public - they fail because of lousy food, incompetent management and/or undercapitalization (no free cash flow, critical examination of overhead such as, e.g. longterm lease terms and requirements) Let me give you an example: Shake Shake had to sign a 10 YEAR lease, lol - that's crazy given the genre of the business model - I could understand (perhaps) a 7 year lease (or a 5 yr with a special re-new option) but this sort of lease ONLY benefits Benderson and is plainly a one-way street (which most smart developers are good at, and Benderson is KING at this).


Some of these restauranteurs must be overly optimistic in their business model in re the "competitive space". How MANY burger and pizza joints can there be and thrive within a 2 mile radius? Ditto "Italian" ? It's plainly bad business judgment in some or most of these failed restaurants....it's unfortunate but it's not the customer's fault most times...


Just remember the failures around UTC itself: Chef's Table, Carmel Cafe, Urban Flats, LeeRoy Selmon's, Half Shell, Square One, Red Elephant, Spacco, World of Beer, Revelry, Burger and Beer Joint, Yo Sushi, POLO GRILL, etc


Now, it's unlikely with the current bankruptcy filing of KONA GRILL, it's unlikely that the court would approve leaving this super expensive, low revenue, (awful high lease) to remain open.


Similarly a reliable source told me that Rusty Bucket, too, is on its last leg.


Again, you can't blame the buying public, it's always what the restaurant is, or isn't doing properly - and let's not talk about quality of the workers themselves

[Ride The WAVE]

Just for an additional (and humorous, but accurate as heck) point of view check this out about Kona, mentioned on Petition11


https://www.petition11.com/cases/tag/DofDelaware




After getting BURNED by Burger and Beer Joint, Benderson/Taubman would have to be a total fool to agree to any lease abatement for these total idiot owners of Kona - total idiots by their own prior actions to THEMSELVES...Benderson certainly doesn't need the money to keep these clowns in The Mall. Hope you enjoy the Petition11 write up.

[beach43ofus]

Shopping Mall's are dying a slow death, and taking their restaurants with them....not just UTC.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mal...es-11559559600

This Wall Street Journal article points to several Mall-based retail stock plummeting after announcing soft May sales results.

J Jill's stock plummeted by 53%! The long-term outlook for restaurants at UTC, and every other major Mall, is bleak.

Outrageous Prime had a nice 2 year run at the Westfield Sarasota Square until it closed in April. The Chili's next door closed a few months prior. Connors is doing well at Westfield Sieta Key Mall, but Bravo next door is gasping for air.

I think restaurants should open in smaller retail centers that are anchored by successful chains that are surviving the internet...like TJ Maxx/Marshall's, Trader Joe's, Aldi, Total Wine & More, Ulta, Sprouts, Detweilers. That is where the foot traffic is at, and the lease terms would be kinder. Of course, you still need to have a good product to thrive.

[FLKitties]

I don't know if I'd call time of death on malls just because of J. Jill's stock price. I don't know if I've ever stepped foot inside a J. Jill store. If I have, I certainly never bought anything there. It's the same with Chico's. These retailers are charging a lot of money for stuff that people in this day and age don't necessarily want to wear. The new crop of women buyers don't seem to be the type that will be shopping leopard-print at Chico's years from now. I think if we start seeing H&M's profits plummeting that is the time to call it.

We mostly go to UTC to eat, not shop. I agree with beach's smaller retail centers comment, though. I think that's the way that they're starting to do things now. I've noticed that trend in newer developments in the Port Charlotte and North Port areas along with the whole Shoppes at UTC thing, and it seems to be what they're planning for the area around the new Costco near I-75 & SR-64. I think the problem is that these little retail centers are having space leased out to nail salons and cell phone stores. It's to the point where I questioned yesterday whether all these nail salons and such are really needed or if they are just some Walter White/Breaking Bad "car wash" covers for money laundering because really how many nail salons does one need in a small area? I could think of a hundred different fast food places I'd rather see go in to these new centers. More people need to eat than get their nails done.

[Ride The WAVE]

If you produce a good consistent product AND have COMPETENT workers, not space-out, tattoed-up drunks and dope users, people are likely to find the restaurant no matter where it is, in most cases (not all of course).


Let me give you an example: Beach Bistro way the heck out on S anna maria has been thriving and surviving for a very very long time under Sean Mruphy's leadership - whether in season or out of season..in the past there were quite a few stable, trustworthy and very decent places sprinkled around the 2 counties : Poseidon, Harry's,Psteria, Summer House, Magic Moment, Bistro 41, Walts (on Washington), Brown Derby, Charley's Crab, L'Auberge du Bon vivant, Waterfront 41, Monroes, Bijou, Pino's - these places stuck around for years and even decades, and a few are still doing very well - even BS places like Bennigan's as a go-to stable place for YEARS or over a decade which itself is a good run....heck, Bonefish has had a good run even though now pretty worn...hell, Chart House is still kicking it....


If you take time to read the awful strategy of Kona, it's crazy stock buy back, borrowing, six CEOs in less than a year, elimination of their "money maker" (happy hout specials, etc), I can't see Piper Jeffray coming up with a smart buyer for this pig unless it's a money laundering operation from the jump....the BK initial filing to the Court read like a damn "marketing piece" lol which tells you that they don't have a clue ! You know you're doing something stupid when you close a store in booming Austin TX, and three in Houston itself.


The restaurant business is full of fool managers and fool employees - combine that with mediocre to bad food, that's a timebomb...but that's how it is.


As I said, some of these businesses deserve to be out of business

[beach43ofus]

Mall retailers stock prices (like J Jills) are down because their sales are down, because foot traffic is down, because of Internet shopping. Lower foot traffic at malls = mall restaurant failures.