Seattle traffic - HOT vs. HOV lanes (income, quality of life)

[70Ford]

Hooray! Finally 167 is having a toll road put in.

WSDOT - Project - SR 167 - HOT Lanes Pilot Project (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/sr167/hotlanes - broken link)

As a direct result of this, I feel there might be a declining need for blow up dolls in rear seats.

Local News | Car-pool lane not for dummies | Seattle Times Newspaper


WILL people pay from 50 cents up to 9 bucks (during rush hour) to get to work? I mean, that's only 45 dollars a week. Every week you work. That could be a lot of weeks. And a lot of 45 dollar chunks.

Then again, maybe it is better for the traffic cops. In 2006 they wrote 10,278 HOV lane violation tickets. WSDOT - HERO Program

As you can see, this put around $124,000 or so into our economy, while tieing up our police force. The math seems to dictate that HOT lanes are the way to go.

What if ALL lanes were HOT lanes? That would be spooky.

I'm trying to dig this around in my brain. I can't see how this will alleviate traffic. I seem to see this as a tax on those who can least afford it. Do people with more money deserve faster lanes? (...which EVERYONE's tax dollars pay for...) Perhaps, it is done to encourage car pooling. I don't think car pooling is the answer. If it was, we'd all be car pooling by now.

I wonder how many people are saying "Me?!" "Carpooling?!" "Impossible!"

Exactly.

[Treefriend]

The toll should be on the whole road, not just one lane.

What I think might happen is, the HOT lane will be
crammed so it won't be any faster, so they will take over a second lane,
then a third. As long as they roll back the taxes we are already paying
towards roads, and as long as it is WSDOT, not a private company
getting the money...oh, and as long as there is a regular, meticulous
and oublic accounting of where the money is going...more power to them.

[sean98125]

Folk are going to spend $45 a week to drive 5 miles an hour below the speed limit behind the buses that are also in that lane, and they won't be able to change lanes over the double white lines. Or they'll be behind the person chattering on the cell phone and driving slower than everyone else.

The cops will still be writing a lot of tickets for people crossing the double white line or for cheaters who aren't carpooling and who don't have transponders.

[70Ford]

HOT lanes driven by pay?

April 2008

• HOT lanes is scheduled to open on SR 167 Saturday, April 26. Solo drivers may then use the HOT lane by paying an electronic toll with a Good To Go! transponder.

WSDOT - Future Tolling in Washington (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Operations/Tolling/FutureTolling.htm - broken link)
Future Tolling in Washington



WSDOT is evaluating many strategies to ensure our highways carry as many vehicles as possible by encouraging motorists to drive during non-peak hours. Among the most promising options is to use tolls based on a variable system pricing. With this type of toll, drivers are charged a higher toll to use a roadway, bridge or tunnel during periods of the heaviest use. The toll rate might change based on the time of day, the number of vehicles on the road, or the speed of traffic.

These concepts include:

• System-wide tolling, where fees are based on actual road use throughout the entire system.
• Dynamic pricing, where the price of the toll changes based on the actual traffic levels.
• Segment tolling, where specified lanes, or entirely separate roads, offer faster trips for those paying a toll.
• Cordon tolling, where all drivers are charged a toll when entering an area, such as a downtown district.
• High-Occupancy-Toll (HOT) lanes, where single-occupant vehicles can pay to use High-Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes when there is available capacity.

For the most part, tolls would be collected electronically with no need for manual toll booths.

[Ira500]

If the goal of HOV lanes is to encourage people to use carpools and transit, and charging people to use that lane may make those lanes more crowded...then is it possible that this will penalize HOV and transit users, and reward the rich?

[seattlerain]

Originally Posted by Ira500

If the goal of HOV lanes is to encourage people to use carpools and transit, and charging people to use that lane may make those lanes more crowded...then is it possible that this will penalize HOV and transit users, and reward the rich?

I think that you are spot on here, they don't call the HOT lanes "Lexus Lanes" for nothing.

[wannabeaTexan]

Originally Posted by Ira500

If the goal of HOV lanes is to encourage people to use carpools and transit, and charging people to use that lane may make those lanes more crowded...then is it possible that this will penalize HOV and transit users, and reward the rich?

I don't know, but that's exactly what I was thinking. Sure...let's find even more ways to make this area more expensive. Like with the 20 cent charge on grocery bags.

[70Ford]

The article states they are offering this to help people who have longer commutes. Isn't it funny that the people who have longer commutes typically have longer commutes because they can't afford to live closer to work?

Lower-income people, she said, often must live in less-expensive housing farther from jobs and are more likely to be hourly wage-earners who will benefit more by saving commuting time.

[wannabeaTexan]

But it's still more expensive. The help they're referring to is quality of life, not monetary.

[Ira500]

...So they're "helping" lower income people who have longer commutes by charging them money?