Seattle (still) looks awful (Vancouver, Bremerton: apartment complex, foreclose, rentals)

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by rkcarguy

What I'm seeing is gov't won't hold PEOPLE accountable. Druggies and criminals aren't so, they are "victims".
If they are truly going to deal with it, jail and institutions are the answer. These people do not have the right to continue to destroy our cities and be a menace to the public and themselves.

I agree. We have to come to a decision about involuntary treatment and incarceration for chronic vagrancy and addiction. We've become uncomfortable with involuntary commitment in recent years, led by people claiming to be compassionate. But leaving people laying and hallucinating in the streets is NOT compassion either. And polluting our cities with garbage and stolen debris is a menace and a crime against the rest of us who live here and own property... you're right.

[rkcarguy]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

I agree. We have to come to a decision about involuntary treatment and incarceration for chronic vagrancy and addiction. We've become uncomfortable with involuntary commitment in recent years, led by people claiming to be compassionate. But leaving people laying and hallucinating in the streets is NOT compassion either. And polluting our cities with garbage and stolen debris is a menace and a crime against the rest of us who live here and own property... you're right.

Exactly. And I may add to the bolded, freezing to death as well. We have a # of them every winter when we get the cold nor'easter. "Death investigation -123 Cherry St" which is a fictional address used on the police report when a dead homeless person is found.

[MechAndy]

The homeless, drug and crime rates are through the roof because of failed policies.
I agree with the sentiment of messed up idea of true compassion.

It is just uncivil to allow people to live in the gutters with drug addiction and mental illness.
It is not fair to them and it is not fair to the rest of society.

They are not there because they just lost their job as some might think.
The ones that just lost their job or lease are either with family, couch surfing at friends or living in their cars.

The people we see have much more complicated problems that a simple shelter won’t cure.
Tossing money foolishly at them is a fools folly.

Incarceration and then separation into categories for specialized treatment is the way out of this.

Some seriously mentally ill people will have to get permanent inside care but is this not more compassionate that them squirming for food on the street and getting robbed of anything they have of value?

Drug addicts need addiction help and therapy.
Giving them drug money and a shack is not compassionate.

We need to show some tough love because this is not working.

[Diana Holbrook]

A few comments, Ruth...

I am not sure I'm with you on REITs being the root cause of people shooting up in the streets and littering our public spaces with stolen bicycle parts.... But I'm willing to listen to housing prices being A PART of what is going on here.

But then reading further, you're blaming a president from 33 years ago for a problem that has really only been a crisis in Western cities for about the last 5 years. Five years where public policy has been to be soft and accepting about crime and drugs and public vagrancy.

I do agree with you though, that expanding mental treatment now will be a big part of the solution. It's been 33 years since Reagan. I think if more mental hospitals are needed, it's going to be up to the current leadership to build them.

You say the Right is laughing all the way to the bank.... have you checked the politics of the major corporations, particularly Seattle Corporations, lately?

And... I don't think global weather is our biggest issue right now.

Grist for the mill.

[Hemlock140]

I have to say that the homeless situation is not new, and not just in the last 5 years, though it has gotten exponentially worse in those years. I worked in Oakland in the 1980s, and there were homeless there. I also remember them near the Greyhound bus depot in San Francisco. I remember a homeless person with a fire on the sidewalk to keep warm across from my office one morning about 1990. I have done work in Seattle, mostly downtown since about 1993,and there were homeless people then, just not as many and not as visible, they tended to remain secluded in the brush. Now it seems like they want to be seen and to cause inconvenience and even danger to the rest of the population.

I don't have a solution, and I don't know if more mental hospitals are needed, but I do know that a lot of those people need treatment. When I had a business in Bellevue in the 1990s there was one (only) homeless person there, who kept sleeping in front of business doors. The police kept rousting him, and eventually I called them when he was harassing the people working across from me and wouldn't move to let them into their store. It turned out that he was severely mentally ill and had not been taking his medication due to no money or health insurance. That is probably much of the current situation for them.

[primaltech]

I swear, I was left-wing when I lived in Georgia, and the politics were always too far to the right for me there, but I'm starting to feel like a right-winger, here. The politics here in the city at least, are too far left, for me. Or it's total dysfunctionality or something. Because, yeah, the situation on the ground is just... really bad. Especially on main streets it's so filthy, all the crack smoking and needles and begging and camping and laying on the sidewalk everywhere. And I get that the core of it is not inherently Seattle's fault (it's sad larger socio-political-health-all kinds of issues in the US), but why is seemingly nothing at all being immediately done about it by Seattle, when it's so badly immediately affecting Seattle?

I lived for 2 years in the Belltown/Downtown area, 2020-21, and now I live in Capitol Hill, mainly cause the rent went up way too much. I would have looked at moving farther out, but I still want to live an urban and car-free lifestyle, saving on money there, and be able to take the light rail to my office downtown. (I usually only go in 1 day a week, but still.)

I was thinking it would be better in this neighborhood, but it seems to be even worse. I've been in this apartment a month, and every single day I get panhandled, sometimes borderline accosted, but it's not that I don't feel safe... it's just... gross. I feel like I'm like stepping and stumbling over bodies and needles. And all the drug-addled people yelling... it's disturbing.

If there's a compassionate hippie left-wing solution, if there's a horrible fascist napalm/death march right wing solution, or something more moderate, at this point I feel like... whatever, I'm open to about anything. Just if city leadership could please address the whole situation on the streets of Seattle, so that at least those of us who can barely afford to live here (and spending all of our income on rent), can enjoy it. I am a liberal, and I feel like I'd vote for a Republican, at this point.

There's having compassion for others, and then there's this whole situation. I mean, surely no one on any side of politics would let someone invade inside their front door, so why is it suddenly okay if it's people camping literally right outside the front door? Especially like on parts of Broadway, the sidewalks sometimes feel like navigating a freaking disaster zone, or some kind of apocalypse. There's still so much to like about the area, but I wish it could be cleaned up somehow.

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by Hemlock140

I have to say that the homeless situation is not new, and not just in the last 5 years, though it has gotten exponentially worse in those years. I worked in Oakland in the 1980s, and there were homeless there. I also remember them near the Greyhound bus depot in San Francisco. I remember a homeless person with a fire on the sidewalk to keep warm across from my office one morning about 1990. I have done work in Seattle, mostly downtown since about 1993,and there were homeless people then, just not as many and not as visible, they tended to remain secluded in the brush. Now it seems like they want to be seen and to cause inconvenience and even danger to the rest of the population.

I worked for twenty years for non-profits helping low income and homeless people. I am NOT saying there haven't always been homeless. Of course there have. I knew them then. I worked in the middle of them then. They were fewer and shorter term. The homeless were helpable. These people are not helpable by any voluntary program now. They are not capable of helping themselves.

What we did NOT have then, is WIDESPREAD needle drug addicts and open needle drug use in our streets with no repercussions.

What we did NOT have then, is widespread possession and hoarding of stolen and ransacked possessions openly displayed in these camps.

The blind eye to "petty" crime, and the acceptance and support of self destruction in the form of needle exchanges and failure to prosecute public use, have played a HUGE role in what we're seeing now.

We NEVER saw the hundreds/thousands of discarded needles, or camps full of stolen garbage, when I was working in homeless programs as recently as 2012-13.

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I am a liberal, and I feel like I'd vote for a Republican, at this point.

There's having compassion for others, and then there's this whole situation. I mean, surely no one on any side of politics would let someone invade inside their front door, so why is it suddenly okay if it's people camping literally right outside the front door? Especially like on parts of Broadway, the sidewalks sometimes feel like navigating a freaking disaster zone, or some kind of apocalypse. There's still so much to like about the area, but I wish it could be cleaned up somehow.

Welcome to solution! We can do this... we just need to admit what doesn't work, and try something new.

[uniquetraveler]

Valid points raised by both sides of the aisle on this issue. Starting from bringing down housing price to stricter enforcement and putting drug addicts in rehab center.

In my opinion, the issue can be addressed in relatively short period of time with some modest measures, after all we are not talking about 2-3 million refugees flooding in, it's about rehabilitating few thousand homeless folks, cleaning graffiti and trash in downtown area.

1) Small house shelters can be built to host people facing homelessness (without mental health issues). For example:
https://humaninterests.seattle.gov/2...village-opens/

This won't require unbundling the whole wall street REIT structure or taxing people like scandinavian countries. Seattle city's standard revenue should be able to support that, after all we have companies like Amazon, Google, Facebook in our backyard. Even with current low tax base, it should be more than enough, if the money is spent prudently/efficiently.

2) People with mental health condition/ drug addictions should be rehabilitated in proper mental healthcare facilities, not just an optional activity. If someone is taking drug and is a threat to others nearby, it's no longer about personal freedom.

3) Stricter enforcement, empowering police and a justice system that is fair but not weak (makes no sense to allow repeat offenders go out free without a bail)

These simple steps won't turn Seattle into Zurich or Oslo overnight, but we will be in much better shape. None of these requires massive investment, fundamental change to any taxing policy or anything-- just effectively using the system we already have.

[Diana Holbrook]

Agree to ^ as a first step. We can reassess after trying *something*!