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Um, no.
Those non-voting, non-citizen people had no such thing... Indians, Blacks and even white women, were subject to the whims of those around them. If they were surrounded by kind, generous people they were indeed allowed life, liberty and even property.
Please produce one fact in support of that claim. Show evidence that their lives, property or liberty were at risk when exercising liberty.
I have yet to find ONE LAW that taxes or infringes upon private property, absolutely owned by individuals - regardless of their race, citizenship, gender, or previous condition.
(Tribal Indians didn't recognize absolute ownership by individuals, so they don't exercise natural liberty. Their tribes, however, are sovereign nations.)
(Women certainly had the right to own land and houses by themselves. Perhaps you are confusing "coverture" - the transfer of a wife's property to her husband - which preserved the "private property" status - ownership by an individual.)
You may be unaware of the distinction, having lived over 77 years under "emergency rules", but the old laws are still on the books.
Do not believe me - GO READ THE LAW FOR YOURSELF.
Please check your state's constitution and laws for the delegation of the power to tax. It will be limited to ESTATE (real and personal property).
Estate is held with QUALIFIED ownership, subject to taxation and regulation.
Private property, held with ABSOLUTE ownership, is not taxable, and if mentioned at all, is explicitly PROTECTED.
Why is PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS important?
Upon one's domain, can one 'pursue happiness' without getting permission from (or paying a fee to) someone else.
If you need government permission, license, pay a tax, or otherwise comply with a rule, it's not a right, but a government privilege.
Rights endowed by one's Creator, are not grants from government. They are secured by government.
Those who HAVE such rights are in a different class from those who surrendered their rights, in exchange for government privilege.
Please produce one fact in support of that claim. Show evidence that their lives, property or liberty were at risk when exercising liberty.
I have yet to find ONE LAW that taxes or infringes upon private property, absolutely owned by individuals - regardless of their race, citizenship, gender, or previous condition.
(Tribal Indians didn't recognize absolute ownership by individuals, so they don't exercise natural liberty. Their tribes, however, are sovereign nations.)
(Women certainly had the right to own land and houses by themselves. Perhaps you are confusing "coverture" - the transfer of a wife's property to her husband - which preserved the "private property" status - ownership by an individual.)
You may be unaware of the distinction, having lived over 77 years under "emergency rules", but the old laws are still on the books.
Do not believe me - GO READ THE LAW FOR YOURSELF.
Please check your state's constitution and laws for the delegation of the power to tax. It will be limited to ESTATE (real and personal property).
Estate is held with QUALIFIED ownership, subject to taxation and regulation.
Private property, held with ABSOLUTE ownership, is not taxable, and if mentioned at all, is explicitly PROTECTED.
Why is PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS important?
Upon one's domain, can one 'pursue happiness' without getting permission from (or paying a fee to) someone else.
If you need government permission, license, pay a tax, or otherwise comply with a rule, it's not a right, but a government privilege.
Rights endowed by one's Creator, are not grants from government. They are secured by government.
Those who HAVE such rights are in a different class from those who surrendered their rights, in exchange for government privilege.
I always find your posts particularly fascinating. You really need to write a book or guide on this material. It's just too much for most people to dig through or even know where to look. Your posts are actually useful because you reference fact. My posts are sometimes logical but more often emotional/rhetorical--and will never do anyone any good unless they happen to agree with me. That applies to 99% of the other posters here as well. But YOUR posts have verifiable fact. Thank you.
You often give me hope that there is a way out from under the steaming mound of feces that the government has us buried beneath. In my case, it's just a matter of how to go about doing it. Your posts often help in this. Problem is, I "surrendered myself to the state" the first day I started working for a wage way back in the dark ages. Pretty crafty way for the state to enslave the masses without them even being aware of it.
So please... no more Little House on the Prairie talk directed toward me. It's an open wound at this point and still healing. Thanks.
I'm obviously missing something here... Why on earth is any of this directed to me?
I responded to a couple of posts by claudhopper and jetgraphics. You jumped in to the conversation, which is fine, but I have yet to direct anything toward you, really, particularly Little House on the Prairie-related
Show evidence that their lives, property or liberty were at risk when exercising liberty.
Seriously??
Most recently: Pre-civil rights (ie, even after their right to vote was in the Constitution!), a great many Southern Blacks were in serious danger when they would do nothing more than try to vote. (Or date, or own a successful business, etc, etc.)
Quote:
Perhaps you are confusing "coverture" - the transfer of a wife's property to her husband - which preserved the "private property" status - ownership by an individual.
If she had the right to property, how could it possibly transfer to someone else??
BTW, I've noticed that this completely ignores the fact that she didn't even have the right to vote (that is, she had no voice)...
I'm obviously missing something here... Why on earth is any of this directed to me?
I responded to a couple of posts by claudhopper and jetgraphics. You jumped in to the conversation, which is fine, but I have yet to direct anything toward you, really, particularly Little House on the Prairie-related
Well, since you quoted my line and responded to it with this,
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsMeFred
But I'm not the one waxing poetic and longing for some kind of wonderous days gone by...
and I'm the one who tends to "wax poetic" most often around here, I assumed it was directed toward me. My mistake.
I do, however disagree with your observation that times are "no better or worse" now than they were in the past. At least I disagree on a universal level. I'm sure it's true for you and many others. But some of us just do not like the times we live in. Sad but true. I'd even take the seventies, back when I was a kid. And it's not just political or social. For me, it's our technology. I hate most of what has been developed within the last 30 years or so. Rather than aiding society, I feel it has aided someone's pocketbook and simply addicted an entire society. But, that's another topic altogether.
Well, since you quoted my line and responded to it with this,
Well yeah, because I was circling back to my initial post in the conversation...
Honestly, I rarely remember people's comments, other than in a most basic sense. I assure you, I have nothing for or against you personally, because I simply don't have the brainpower to keep specifics straight.
Philosopher John Locke is generally recognized as the inspiration to the Founding Fathers. He owned shares in the Royal Africa Company, the corporation that purchased black slaves and transported them to British possessions. The slaves were treated well and allowed recreational activities which sometimes included target practice. In the event of an encounter with an enemy ship slaves commonly joined the crew in defending the ship. Lloyds of London, the primary insurer of slave cargoes, gave both plaques and monetary rewards to captains who maintained a low mortality rate.
With respect to voting, the Founding Fathers never believed that slaves or free blacks had political rights; their silence on the matter is deafening. But blacks in this country lived far better lives as valuable property than they do as citizens today. Compare a foetid city slum to the healthful environment of an antebellum plantation.
Seriously??
Most recently: Pre-civil rights (ie, even after their right to vote was in the Constitution!), a great many Southern Blacks were in serious danger when they would do nothing more than try to vote. (Or date, or own a successful business, etc, etc.)
Free black males enjoyed wider employment opportunities than free black females, who were largely confined to domestic occupations... free black boys could become apprentices to carpenters, coopers, barbers, and blacksmiths... During the Civil War, free blacks fought on the confederate and union sides.
"Civil rights" (aka "civil liberties") are not the same as political liberties (the privilege to vote and hold office). Though it's often called the "right to vote," it's actually a privilege granted by government. If there was no government, what would one be voting on?
And since political liberty is a STEP DOWN in status (lest the servant becomes the master) as well as a privilege, the people could rightly refuse service by whomever. Government service is NOT a right, but a privilege. (Which is the source for the many legal prohibitions on behavior, "blue laws", etc. Such laws were limited in scope to 'persons liable'.)
Which brings us back to the "serious danger" for Blacks trying to vote. Since the Blacks had no privilege to serve or vote in government, what foolishness would lead them to try?
As to racial prejudices - that's a common occurrence around the world. In China, note the endearing term "Gwailo", white devil.
But the fact remains, that a free Black could own property, and thus exercise natural liberty upon it.
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