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ognend said: "Ugh. A 12 year old and a 15 year old need structure and stability, NOT to run around in a van on an adventure they may not (and probably will not) understand. They also need to go to school, have steady friends and know that "it is OK" and that there will always be food on the table.
Even if you were rich and doing this for fun, it is the wrong thing to do. The right thing to do is to own up, get a job and see your kids at least through high school. That seems only a few years away anyways, judging by their ages. Then they can get to college (take up loans if they have to get the education) and you can move on."
I have to agree with the above. It would be the very rare 12 year old that would tolerate (much less flourish in) the kind of living situation that you would like to begin. They might be bored with school now and think that being a gypsy in the modern sense would be fun but that would quickly change once the traveling got old and it might come quicker than you think.
You had kids very early, you didn't have your youthful fun or sow your wild oats when it's normally done and you probably feel really tied down. But you are the adult here. Keep those kids together, be a mom and then have your adventures, fun or second childhood when your kids are out of the house or your they might not be speaking to you some day. Sorry, I call it like I see it.
Hmmm. I'm not the one to say what you are doing is good or bad. That's up to you and your children.
I would say that if it were the other way around--you were taking your 15-year-old rather than the 12-year-old, I personally would be more willing to do something like that. Looking back at my youth, from about 8th grade on, school was a total waste of time. Everything they were going to teach me, I knew by 8th grade. High School was a complete waste of my life. I learned nothing there. Nothing was really available to learn--it was more like a social club, and I've never been into that sort of thing. So... at 15, I probably would have learned more about life doing what you are doing than I would sleeping in a classroom that was offering nothing worth my time.
But, still, at 12... I'm not so sure. Homeschooling can work, but you might have your hands full with the lifestyle. Be that as it may, you should follow your heart and head. Just be careful in your choices.
I'm 32/female and I've always wanted to live off the grid. I have a small sewing business which I plan to take on the road with me. I plan to save for a conversion van but for now I've just got my little Dodge Caravan which I plan on making some minor adjustments to. Has anyone here done this? I'd like to meet people from all over the world, and hopefully plan some stops where I can stop to volunteer some time in exchange for a meal, warm bed & shower. I can't explain why I want to do this, I guess I'm just a free spirit at heart and finally want to follow my dreams.
Thanks!
Kara
I've stayed in my old sedan for a week without trouble so you can do it, biggest concern is cold nights. My mother lived a month in a car working to save money. Take as least things as possible, it's a pain keeping track of too much stuff. I seen 0degree rated sleeping bags at Dick's for under a 100 dollars, the 30degree ones won't cut it, they're really only effective above 45 or so. Try to map out an area with good rest areas, some have outside faucets. I've bathed under those in my dirty clothes, then dried the clothes and put on a clean outfit. Have enough water in the van so you can brush and wash your hands or face without driving somewhere. My g/f is just the same, loves traveling even if its in a car, we've slept several nights in a car during cold weather. A iron skillet by lodge and some catering burners which u simply light to burn 2+ hours are good for heating eggs or veggie burgers or something. Can get those at many dollar stores. Be safe, have some kind of effective weapon handy. You'll save gas with the minivan.
Well that changes everything. NO responsible parent voluntarily makes their child a destitute drifter. Leave both of your kids with a responsible adult and go out and do whatever you feel is more important than raising your kids.
give me a break.
when i was a child we went on trips with my father in his semi. we loved it. children travel far better than adults, and can roll with changes much better than adults.
the idea that children need stability all the time is a myth. i have seen it time and time again, with friend's children, from reading about other's adventures when they were children, from talking to other people. its a great experience for kids to learn about other modes of living, and won't hurt them at all. going hungry? without love? that will hurt em. but they can do that warm and cozy in a huge house too. the worst thing is lack of love, abandoning them. it isn't the victorian era anymore. "destitute drifter?" hyperbole much?
everyone thinks kids need more than they do. they need love, they need food, they need to feel safe, always. all the rest can be variable. i bet they would rather be with their mother in a van than they would in a big warm house without her. i guess no one remembers the great depression? kids are not fragile glass snowflakes that need to be kept in hermetically sealed boxes.
give me a break.
everyone thinks kids need more than they do. they need love, they need food, they need to feel safe
They need to go to school or get some kind of an education so that they can make it in the real world after Mom is gone. Unless you are going to push your child into some kind of a trade (carpenter, plumber, electrician etc. - for which they still need education) or the Army, they need to go to college or else will be forever hampered by the few job choices there are left for people without degrees.
Yes, I know, Bill Gates made it without a college degree but he lived in a house with parents who enabled him to pursue whatever he wanted to pursue. 12 yr old (and even 15 yr old) is too young to make up their own mind about what is to come. First they need to finish at least their high school and then they can maybe be unleashed onto the world with their own choices. Any parent who will *willingly* deny this to their child is, in my humble opinion, not fit to be a parent.
You talk about the great depression in your post - hello, it was an *unusual* time and definitely people did not push their children into lives of drifters and laborers for fun, it was because they had to. We don't know the OP's circumstances so everything anyone says in here is based on their own conclusions from the two posts she made. My assumption is that she is doing this for fun. In that case it is *wrong* in my opinion. Even if she was hungry or running away from someone/something, there are still ways to *slowly* work on becoming more stable and making a better life for your children, other than "I have a conversion van and no job but I am going to double down and live out of the van with no plan AND try to start a sewing business at the same time". People have trouble doing ONE of those things when everything else is taken care of (the spouse works, has medical insurance and the other spouse is trying to start a business), let alone single, with a 12 yr old child out of a van parked in a Walmart parking lot.
Looking back at my youth, from about 8th grade on, school was a total waste of time. Everything they were going to teach me, I knew by 8th grade. High School was a complete waste of my life. I learned nothing there. Nothing was really available to learn--it was more like a social club, and I've never been into that sort of thing. So... at 15, I probably would have learned more about life doing what you are doing than I would sleeping in a classroom that was offering nothing worth my time.
If your goal in life is to eat, sleep, drink water and walk, you learned that by age 3. Nothing past that would further advance those goals.
If your goal in life was to dig ditches, crush rock or flip burgers for a living, nothing past primary school was probably necessary.
If your goal in life was to make some kind of a change, advance something, discover something etc. (and live a very comfortable life in the process) a college degree and post-graduate education are a must. The old Greek philosophers and scientists who contributed to the wealth of human knowledge were all well to do. In fact, it is VERY difficult to be digging ditches during the day for a living and then come home at night to come up with something new in graph theory, for example. You can be a destitute scientist or a struggling artist for a while but even those folks have a roof over their heads and food on the table, it's just cheap food and poor living accommodations.
A lot of farmers' children nowadays go to college and come back to the farm AFTER they have earned a degree in economics or business or an Ag degree. The world is more complex than the 1930s "rain follow the plow" or 1820s "get the Injuns out of here so we can own up to our 160 acre homestead while living in a leaky sod house".
nighthouse, how long were the trips in your father's semi? If it was for a week or two, or even a couple of months, sure! That would be fun. And truck drivers have their truck stops and places to go to rest, don't they? And you'll probably meet other truckers on the road, too, right? Safety in numbers? I bet it would be fun to travel across the country for awhile. I drove across the country too, for 5 days. It was a blast. Of course we slept in hotels (nothing fancy, think days' inn and the like). In some countries (I haven't seen this here in the US but it may exist, I just haven't looked) you can rent a van with sleeping accommodations and drive around the country, such as New Zealand. They usually advertise weekly/monthly rates. That would be a fun vacation for sure.
But...
That's a big difference than the OP's plan of doing it permanently.
I think if she wants to go for a few weeks in a conversion van with her kids, hey, why not? That could be fun. If she wants to live this lifestyle forever, then her kids should be staying with a relative. Or a friend. The 12 year old could stay with whoever the 15 year old is staying with. It sounds to me like the OP had to grow up too fast and is regretting missing out on those young adult years where you could do things like go on an extended road trip with your friends and only have to worry about where you're going to sleep that night. And that's understandable. But I think she either needs to leave both kids behind, or wait until they're finished with high school and then go on her trip. At the very least that gives her a lot of time to save money, work towards buying a van or an RV, and allows her a ton of time to plan her trip. I just can't see taking a 12 year old along for the ride with the circumstances outlined in her post.
If your goal in life is to eat, sleep, drink water and walk, you learned that by age 3. Nothing past that would further advance those goals.
If your goal in life was to dig ditches, crush rock or flip burgers for a living, nothing past primary school was probably necessary.
If your goal in life was to make some kind of a change, advance something, discover something etc. (and live a very comfortable life in the process) a college degree and post-graduate education are a must. The old Greek philosophers and scientists who contributed to the wealth of human knowledge were all well to do. In fact, it is VERY difficult to be digging ditches during the day for a living and then come home at night to come up with something new in graph theory, for example. You can be a destitute scientist or a struggling artist for a while but even those folks have a roof over their heads and food on the table, it's just cheap food and poor living accommodations.
A lot of farmers' children nowadays go to college and come back to the farm AFTER they have earned a degree in economics or business or an Ag degree. The world is more complex than the 1930s "rain follow the plow" or 1820s "get the Injuns out of here so we can own up to our 160 acre homestead while living in a leaky sod house".
OD
You are mis-reading my post. I said nothing about higher education. What I'm saying is that I could have easily skipped from 8th grade to college (knowledge-wise). Nothing new was presented to me from 8th grade through 12th grade. At least nothing important. I did learn Spanish in high school. That was seriously the only new thing I learned. Then again, I've always be an Autodidact sort of person, anyway. So by the time they got around to it in school, I was already bored with it and had moved on to something else. I was moved up a grade in my early years of school for just that reason.
As for living a "comfortable" life, I'm absolutely sure your idea of comfort is far different than mine. Comfort for me, is a cozy 12x18 cabin, sufficient food, and little debt, thus little reason to waste my time funding debt.
Now, can you please show me where I said I didn't learn anything as I was getting those two college degrees? I was talking about run-of-the-mill public K12 education, or lack thereof.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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It's a stupid idea to take a 12 yo out on the road for more than a week or so. Talk about bait for child molesters! And how is karmadi going to get sewing customers if she's constantly going from place to place? That's something where word of mouth over months and years gets the business, people aren't going to magically know the new van woman down by the river is the one to go to.
You are mis-reading my post. I said nothing about higher education. What I'm saying is that I could have easily skipped from 8th grade to college (knowledge-wise). Nothing new was presented to me from 8th grade through 12th grade. At least nothing important. I did learn Spanish in high school.
Ahh, OK, my bad. I am so quick to judge you, I don't know why
I don't know about American high schools but when I went to high school I learned a lot. Of course I attended a high school that specialized in mathematics and computer science. But, we learned basic calculus and linear algebra in high school. I laughed in college in Canada when the calculus failure rate for the class was 56% since the majority of the students had never heard of limits and differentiation before they set foot in college... My wife went to one of those IB high schools and that resulted in a whole year of courses being accepted at the college level. So, there is plenty to learn in high school
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
As for living a "comfortable" life, I'm absolutely sure your idea of comfort is far different than mine. Comfort for me, is a cozy 12x18 cabin, sufficient food, and little debt, thus little reason to waste my time funding debt.
Again you are making conclusions about me. You only missed throwing in the "your liberal friends" sticker! Just because you are living a comfortable life does not mean you are in debt. Quite the contrary actually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
Now, can you please show me where I said I didn't learn anything as I was getting those two college degrees? I was talking about run-of-the-mill public K12 education, or lack thereof.
Generalizations, generalizations
OD
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