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Search online and you will find an article that shows most prescription pills are still over 95% effective.
Hell, my family has a stock of Vicodem since before I was born! Taken a fee [sic] times over the years. Always worked!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend
I was referring to your comment about the drug your family had much longer than stated expiration date - I love science but one anecdote does not make a rule.
Of course it doesn't, but why would you ignore the data part and focus on the anecdotal part?
The expiration date does not indicate a point when a medication loses potency and is no longer effective or becomes harmful.
In general, drugs expiration date is 2-5 years from production date. For example, if a company chooses a two year expiration date, it does not have to test beyond that for prolonged effectiveness.
2Potency and Efficacy. Drug's potency begins to reduce from the moment it is manufactured; it is not in anyway spontaneous after the expiry date.
Expired medications have not necessarily lost potency. The expiration date is only an assurance that the labeled potency will last at least until that time. Ongoing research[3] shows that stored under optimal conditions, many drugs retain 90% of their potency for at least five years after the labeled expiration date, and sometimes longer. Even 10 years after the expiration date many pharmaceuticals have a good deal of their original potency[4].
Important note: Solid dosage forms, such as tablets and capsules, are most stable past their expiration date. Drugs that exist in solution or as a reconstituted suspension may not have the required potency if used when outdated.
The best evidence of acceptable potency of the medications beyond their expiration date is provided by the Shelf Life Extension Program (SLEP) undertaken by the FDA for the Department of Defense[4]. The aim of the SLEP program was to reduce medication costs for the military. SLEP has found that 88% of 122 different drugs stored under ideal conditions should have their expiration dates extended more than 1 year, with an average extension of 66 months, and a maximum extension of 278 months.
Recently researchers investigated samples of 8 medications that had expired 28 to 40 years earlier and contained 15 different active ingredients in all[3]. The active ingredients tested for were: aspirin, amphetamine, phenacetin, methaqualone, codeine, butalbital, caffeine, phenobarbital, meprobamate, pentobarbital, secobarbital, hydrocodone, chlorpheniramine, and acetaminophen. The results showed that 11 (79%) of the 14 drug compounds were always present in concentrations of at least 90% of the amount indicated on the drug label, which is generally recognized as the minimum acceptable potency.
There is a reason why the expiration date is there - you could be in the 20% that is taking a drug that has lost potency and is doing nothing for you. I agree otherwise, in a SHTF scenario it will not matter if it is expired or not. Note also that these were compounded drugs in special packaging (manufactured), not fish antibiotics purchased in a bucket or jar. You have people in this thread openly admitting self-medicating for months on end and there is no SHTF that I know of . My question is first - where do you even get the antibiotics for 72 days (that are safe for human consumption)?
There are good doctors and bad doctors, just like plumbers. There may be pubmed or medical textbooks but if you ever went to any kind of medical school - people are required to take biochem, anatomy, organic chemistry and other fundamentals before they embark on actually learning about the symptoms of each particular disease. Then they also do residence.
I personally skip over family practice doctors and go straight to the specialists. I found that it is much more difficult to find a bad specialist (not impossible but lower chances) than a bad basic GP.
As in every encounter with any professional in the world - you have to be your own advocate. This means reading and asking good questions - as you said, you know your body best (or you should, in my personal experience most people are far too detached from their bodies - after all if they were connected to them they would not most be severely overweight and sedentary or be eating the processed garbage that these days passes for food).
Most low hanging fruits in medicine were collected/solved by antibiotics, antifungals and a handful of other basic medications. The problems people have with doctors come from the new diseases these days that are lifestyle diseases - induced by chemical foods, polluted air, lack of movement, high stress, overloads of sugar etc. - these are the chronic, auto-immune problems that originate in the gut or are one way or another related to today's environment and lifestyle. These problems are not so easy to fix and modern medicine has no good solution for a slew of them, heck it barely even recognizes them. This does not mean modern medicine is bad (basic medical problems still concern probably 80+ percent of cases and are solved with age old drugs or new, better drugs for the same purpose). Then there is also surgery, advanced surgery, advanced diagnostics/imaging/tests etc. etc. Most people fall into the trap of dismissing all of medicine because it does not solve someone's lifestyle problem with a pill (and the doctor does not recognize the condition as lifestyle induced condition).
However, there was a case above of someone spending 72 days on a coctail of antibiotics for a sinus infection and 45 days for a pneumonia. Neither are new conditions and hardly require self-medicating for so long. To think of all the damage so many antibiotics caused used for so long....
That is true that you need a foundation in those subjects to understand what you are reading. However, if you have ever looked at PA programs they are only 2 years! I think in the future, they will be the main "primary doctor" and doctors who did not specialize will be a gateway to specialists.
I've met good specialists and bad, just like any MD. My experience has been that even specialist tend to only focus on a few "common specialties" within their specialty.
For example, (and yes this is only one anecdotal tale but this type of thing is tough to measure) when my optometrist diagnosed me with anterior uveitis, the ophthalmologist just started throwing drugs and tests at me. It took over THREE visits with him to do the test for what i now know is the main cause of the disease and should have been tested for on day 1.
Because of that, and an unwillingness to refer me to someone who knew what they were doing, i now have permanent vision loss in one eye. And when i finally started researching it myself, i know that the next step on the continuum of care was a steroid shot in the eye. Yet he didn't listen to me and refused. Wanted to set up other meaningless tests and then "consider referring to someone else." (I 100% agree about being your own advocate, but quite frankly, many doctors, especially older ones, are unwilling to listen to females in their 20s. I am glad to see that things seem to be changing in this respect. And maybe as i get older, i will present as more "respectable.")
It wasn't until i camped out in Mass Eye and Ear ER until i got access to an "ocular immunologist." I would never have thought such a thing existed! I went in on Friday, Sat and Sun. On Monday i FINALLY had an appointment with someone who know what he was doing and a "shot in the eye" that same day. I do not have any other type of arthritis or known inflammation.
And managed care unfortunately makes most people see their PCP first before getting a referral. Which is usually, in my experience, a waste of time and money. Some insurance companies are more militant about it than others. And then the facility will push for you to see a doctor in "their network" as opposed to seeing the best one that you know of.
But yes, i also agree that 72 and 45 days on antibiotics is way too long! I am not a huge proponent of antibiotics in general since i know that *most* infections will go away on their own in time and do not require them. The only ones i "stock" are left overs from prior illnesses.
And if i ever need any prescription drugs when i don't have a prescription(something that used to happen a lot when i was uninsured), i just order them from India where most of our generics are made anyways.
That is true that you need a foundation in those subjects to understand what you are reading. However, if you have ever looked at PA programs they are only 2 years! I think in the future, they will be the main "primary doctor" and doctors who did not specialize will be a gateway to specialists.
You also need exposure/experience which is only obtained by practising the subject matter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums
I've met good specialists and bad, just like any MD. My experience has been that even specialist tend to only focus on a few "common specialties" within their specialty.
Agreed. This is where being your own advocate comes in. The medical "system" is not perfect, far from it. However, there are real things you can do and that happen to you in this "system" and then there is unjustified crap that gets spread around. I am pretty sure 99.9% of basic GPs see a patient in the United States who is obese or overweight and doesn't exercise and I am sure that 99.9% of those physicians tell their patient to loose weight, start exercising and watch what they eat. I am also pretty sure that most patients ignore the advice and then end up at a specialist 5 years down the road who doesn't have the appropriate meds to treat what is a lifestyle disease. Then the stories of "I can't get a diagnosis" and the "meds don't work" start. After that the same people start seeing holistic doctors, quacks etc. and start claiming how this stuff is more effective. Yeah, right. Should have listened to the GP to being with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums
For example, (and yes this is only one anecdotal tale but this type of thing is tough to measure) when my optometrist diagnosed me with anterior uveitis, the ophthalmologist just started throwing drugs and tests at me. It took over THREE visits with him to do the test for what i now know is the main cause of the disease and should have been tested for on day 1.
I went through 3 ENT specialists, two allergists and one immunology PhD/allergist, food sensitivity testing (not FDA approved but pushed for by the immunology PhD) to figure out what was wrong with me. I was my own advocate by reading, doing and insisting. I even ended up communicating over Facebook with a leading ENT specialist in New York (half-way across the country from where we live). He ended up pointing me to his student in San Antonio, TX where I ended up finding a portion of the solution and getting referred to the immunology guy who led me down the path of the second portion of the solution. Should all this just have worked from scratch without my minimal involvement? Sure, in theory . In practice, I ended up taking care of a problem that I caused by fixing my lifestyle/diet without any meds (believe me, they were proscribed a plenty). Everyone has a story like this, I am pretty sure. However, prior to even getting the "condition" my diet was horrible, I was 10 pounds overweight, did not exercise, my diet was high in sugar etc. I was warned year after year by my GP about it but I ignored it thinking "it can't happen to me". Well, it did and it was a wake-up call. These days I grow most of my veggies as a result and have bees in the backyard etc. I exercise every day. All in all, I took control over my own health as much as I can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums
And managed care unfortunately makes most people see their PCP first before getting a referral. Which is usually, in my experience, a waste of time and money. Some insurance companies are more militant about it than others. And then the facility will push for you to see a doctor in "their network" as opposed to seeing the best one that you know of.
Maybe I am a snob. I always had insurance that had very low copays and allowed me to pick a specialist at will. Usually there is always one or two in your network that will be top-notch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums
But yes, i also agree that 72 and 45 days on antibiotics is way too long! I am not a huge proponent of antibiotics in general since i know that *most* infections will go away on their own in time and do not require them. The only ones i "stock" are left overs from prior illnesses.
You should take your antibiotics for the full course or risk bacteria becoming resistant
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums
And if i ever need any prescription drugs when i don't have a prescription(something that used to happen a lot when i was uninsured), i just order them from India where most of our generics are made anyways.
Ouch. I never do this because I never know what is in the drug - what is the quality controls etc....
I'm in the health field and TOTALLY have a slew of antibiotics, like amoxicillan, cipro, zithromax, tetracycline etc. Also, have quite a few Doctor friends that gave merx's for steroids (people always forget to stock steroids). They happen to think there could be a shortage in the country coming and have their stocks up as well.
I also have a chemistry (very nice one) and have made my own penicillin. But...I'm weird.
What kind of steroids? Why would they be necessary if SHTF? Why do they think a shortage is imminent
Do you consider prednisone to become in scarce supply soon?
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- I love science but one anecdote does not make a rule.
. My question is first - where do you even get the antibiotics for 72 days (that are safe for human consumption)?
