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Thanks for the offer, TRex2, but after going thru Hurricane Camille and Hurricane Katrina, I pretty well know how to live without electronics! Still have my books and board games. I wonder how much the original Monopoly game is worth (yep, it's complete. Threats of physical damage work).
As bad as that was.... An EMP would be exponentially worse.
By coincidence, we had an EMP dry run the last couple of days. We had a heavy, wet, snow storm that brought down power lines, including some major supply lines. About 80% of electrical customers in my county lost power. That's not many people, only about 90,000, but my county is the size of Connecticut. The phone company amplifier batteries are only good for about 6 hours, so the land line went out soon after. There is no cell service at my home. All the local radio and TV stations were knocked offline, though the NOAA weather station stayed up. All highways were closed. They even closed 40 miles of I-5 for several hours.
So. No power or communications, and travel very restricted. EMP, anyone. We had a fire in the wood stove anyway, since it's winter. Water is gravity feed. I thought about firing up the generator, but we really don't need electricity to live. Thanks to the snow, I shoveled some into a cooler and moved perishables from the fridge out there. Cooler instead of a snow bank because otherwise the wildlife would eat it. We cooked on the wood stove, warmed up leftovers, biscuits and gravy (have camp oven), sausage and eggs, about a gallon of coffee, thanks to an antique hand crank coffee grinder. Lighting after dark was by two Aladdin lamps and multiple wall hung oil lamps and candle sconces. Entertainment was board games, mostly Scrabble. The Aladdin lamp helped to read the Scrabble dictionary. We got plenty of sleep, since there was no reason to stay up late.
Obviously, since I'm back online, the power came back. It's snowing.
its not that long ago since everyone lived like that, I can remember my grandparents have gas lamps on the wall no electricity.
its not that long ago since everyone lived like that, I can remember my grandparents have gas lamps on the wall no electricity.
Trouble is, at least here in the US, there are three times
as many of us, as back then. Also, people knew how to get
along and we didn't have Bolsheviks attempting to exploit
every weakness and they hadn't indoctrinated our children.
To be without electricity 100 years ago was an inconvenience,
today it would be fatal.
To be without electricity 100 years ago was an inconvenience,
today it would be fatal.
only because people have no idea how to live without it, humans lived for thousands of years without electricity, its only been in houses here for about 80 years, living without isn't hard its just a matter of adapting.
if an EMP or solar storm happened they'd have to.
only because people have no idea how to live without it, humans lived for thousands of years without electricity, its only been in houses here for about 80 years, living without isn't hard its just a matter of adapting.
if an EMP or solar storm happened they'd have to.
We couldn't survive as a society if the switch was instantly turned off.
We would need years notice to go back to older technology that was no electricity dependent.
We would need years to build up supply chains and systems.
Our current population density in many Urban areas far exceeds carrying capacity and to turn off electricity every one will starve.
only because people have no idea how to live without it, humans lived for thousands of years without electricity, its only been in houses here for about 80 years, living without isn't hard its just a matter of adapting.
if an EMP or solar storm happened they'd have to.
This isn't correct.
And this is why:
Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkthekoolaid
...
Our current population density in many Urban areas far exceeds carrying capacity and to turn off electricity every one will starve.
But it isn't just urban areas. And it isn't just "electricity in houses"
A major disaster from a CME or EMP would virtually stop farming,
and at the current population, without mechanized agriculture,
we couldn't feed them no matter how they were distributed.
Most of our non-electric technology has gone to the junkyard. OTOH, most of it was very simple and can be easily fabricated by any shop.
Most shops aren't equipped to fabricate anything without electricity.
Welding by gas or forge isn't as easy as using a Mig or SMAW. Machining parts by forging or casting then finishing and fitting by hand using files and chisels. Many of those skills are gone.
Just forging an ax takes some skill many no longer have. Do you drift an eye or do you wrap? Do you differential treat or do you forge weld a strip of high carbon to make the cutting edge?
Does your ax need a poll?
Is the ax for felling or shaping? Do you need to offset the blade? What type of edge geometry will work best for your intended purpose?
Just watch the Forged in Fire program on History Channel sometime. Many of the smiths on that show don't know how to spark test to identify the carbon content of their steel. If they don't have propane forges, blowers, electric grinders, power hammers and electric drill presses, most of them couldn't work without retraining.
Even steam engines prior to the development of electric welders could only be made by riveting because forge welding only works on small pieces.
Someone who's handy with tools could fashion a plow shoe, but it takes a smith to make a plowshare.
Without electric pumps to move natural gas, we'd have to go back to coal, coke and wood to heat our industrial processes, and that would mean having to build new foundries so get steel.
It wouldn't be easy to rebuild to our current level of technology overnight because the skills our tech is based on don't exist anymore except in isolated pockets.
I have to admit I would be at a loss to fabricate new mantles for my Aladdin lamps, but I could knock out a water pump with hand tools in a day. Castings, even large castings, are pretty straightforward with simple tools. Carpenter together a nice water wheel and a shaft with leather belts and you can run a shop just fine without electricity. I have worked in a shaft and belt shop. The bench tools worked better than the portables with their puny little electric motors. A 10 hp water wheel running a bench grinder makes it one hell of a tool.
We have plenty of steel sitting around. Building high rise apartments would come to an abrupt stop without elevators, so structural steel would lose it's biggest market. The big problem would be getting all the couch potatoes into shape. Getting lumber out of the woods would require going back to 50 man crews and lumber camps instead of two guys with a loader and a feller-buncher.
As for steam engines, if you have coal you have carbide, and if you have carbide you have acetylene. It would take a bit to bootstrap the liquid air compressors to steam power, but it wouldn't take more than a few months at most.
It would be a footrace between converting back to 19th century technology and restoring electrical distribution channels. There might be some entertaining hybrids running around. In my neighborhood, I bet it would be less than a month before wood gas automobiles started running around. They are a little smoky, but they work.
Without electric pumps to move natural gas, we'd have to go back to coal, coke and wood to heat our industrial processes, and that would mean having to build new foundries so get steel.
I bet quite a few of the people reading this,
let alone those who don't prep, would know
what either coke, or a foundry, is.
Quote:
Someone who's handy with tools could fashion a plow shoe, but it takes a smith to make a plowshare.
What?! you mean you can't just beat
a fruit can or soup can into a reasonable shape
and use that? [/sarcasm]
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