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americans fans want to coppy europe with cheering for team but it is empty they do not know even why they cheer do tifo or chant.in europe they chant tifo and cheer historic accomplishments of the club not just say empty words americans fans like to do
I don't know about other American clubs, but the Sounders' Emerald City Supporters are very Europe-like in that they know exactly why they're doing tifo and the meaning behind the words that they're singing.
I don't know about other American clubs, but the Sounders' Emerald City Supporters are very Europe-like in that they know exactly why they're doing tifo and the meaning behind the words that they're singing.
The difference is that it’s cosplay. They’re playing the role of a British football supporter. In the UK, their grandfather sang those songs and chanted those chants. It’s like me knowing children’s songs.
The difference is that it’s cosplay. They’re playing the role of a British football supporter. In the UK, their grandfather sang those songs and chanted those chants. It’s like me knowing children’s songs.
If it is cosplay here, it is cosplay in London. Someone always does something first. If it is successful, it becomes a part of the culture for that thing. Its simply not cosplay, its passion for the culture. And it is here. Go to any NYCFC match and its clear. The issue is that its not English style support in NYCFC, its south american. But the south american football culture is just as real as the european. America is developing its own soccer culture, and it draws from far more than just the premier league.
The difference is that it’s cosplay. They’re playing the role of a British football supporter. In the UK, their grandfather sang those songs and chanted those chants. It’s like me knowing children’s songs.
Most of US culture is borrowed from elsewhere. That doesn't invalidate it; we just give it our own spin. Anyway, if you are looking for US sports culture, college football have been around for 130 years. Many of those teams have developed their own unique cultures. College football fans can be as rabid and devoted as you'll find anywhere.
Most of US culture is borrowed from elsewhere. That doesn't invalidate it; we just give it our own spin.
Therein lies the issue with MLS atmospheres, right? They're not really giving it their own spin, they're trying to replicate what they see elsewhere, but what came from elsewhere arose organically from the social clubs and communities that spawned the football clubs.
College football support is organic, the passion is organic. I've no doubt that genuine MLS club cultures will emerge, but it'll take time. Makes you wonder how chants got started in Europe and South America, did it seem as contrived as MLS fandom seems to us? Or is it a product from a time and place, specifically?
Makes you wonder how chants got started in Europe and South America, did it seem as contrived as MLS fandom seems to us? Or is it a product from a time and place, specifically?
There are all the local rivalries that go back more than a century. Unlike the US, the clubs are geographically close to each other. Your office mate from one town over has their own local club. If they’re in the same league, you have two matches per year. I’m an hour from Gillette and the New England Revolution. The next closest club is 3 1/2 hours away in New York City. There’s no history. It’s not a rivalry. I think the chants were originally organic. Home supporters vs away supporters.
There are all the local rivalries that go back more than a century. Unlike the US, the clubs are geographically close to each other. Your office mate from one town over has their own local club. If they’re in the same league, you have two matches per year. I’m an hour from Gillette and the New England Revolution. The next closest club is 3 1/2 hours away in New York City. There’s no history. It’s not a rivalry. I think the chants were originally organic. Home supporters vs away supporters.
Well that's surprising... I grew up more into hockey than anything, and growing up in Montreal, we had strong rivalries with the Boston Bruins (ongoing) and the Toronto Maple Leafs (Montreal and Toronto "dislike" each other in general) and the distance between the cities is some 6 hours...
With MLS, there is definitely rivalry between Orlando City and Inter Miami, and it's strong enough that it even gets into Youth leagues (MLS Next)
Therein lies the issue with MLS atmospheres, right? They're not really giving it their own spin, they're trying to replicate what they see elsewhere, but what came from elsewhere arose organically from the social clubs and communities that spawned the football clubs.
College football support is organic, the passion is organic. I've no doubt that genuine MLS club cultures will emerge, but it'll take time. Makes you wonder how chants got started in Europe and South America, did it seem as contrived as MLS fandom seems to us? Or is it a product from a time and place, specifically?
I respectfully disagree with the premise of your comment, and its validity. Fans are very organic, but all fans learn what they see. Every single fan in England has learned not only the chants, but the very existence of chanting, from attending matches or watching them on TV. Every single one of them replicates what they see. This is exactly what happens in a place where a sport is growing. In seattle, the fans are FAR different than the NYC fans, which are far different than the Miami fans, than the LA fans, and the Kansas City fans. I thin if you were to ask the average UK soccer supporter it is difficult to imagine such differences becasue of the very different ways the US v. england developed, also England is relatively small in comparison and its hard to imagine such geographical distinctions.
But in the US, all of it is 100% organic, and based on what each fan base developed with. College football support is indeed organic, but MLS support is as well. The fact that people from the northwestern united states are different from people in the Miami area does not make the way they support sports less organic, nor do they try and mimic the same things from what they know, because what they know is far different. You should have no doubt that genuine MLS club cultures will emerge, because they already have. the NYC fan base is heavily mexican and domincan and derives both the food sold at the stadiums, and their sports support from those cultures. You can buy sushi at seattle games and the fans know far more about beer than most professional brewers do. Miami is a dance and club music venue, and the fans have far more cuban and Caribbean cultrue than south american. Seattles cheering is very much similar to seahawks football, which is unlike any other football club in the US. The MLS, US professional and college football, baseball, hockey, tennis, and all sports, have incredible fans that each club fan base have their own way of doing things. Womens soccer fans in the US have a very different culture than the mens clubs. Nothing personal meant here, just an honest take on your comments.
You should have no doubt that genuine MLS club cultures will emerge, because they already have. the NYC fan base is heavily mexican and domincan and derives both the food sold at the stadiums, and their sports support from those cultures. You can buy sushi at seattle games and the fans know far more about beer than most professional brewers do. Miami is a dance and club music venue, and the fans have far more cuban and Caribbean cultrue than south american. Seattles cheering is very much similar to seahawks football, which is unlike any other football club in the US. The MLS, US professional and college football, baseball, hockey, tennis, and all sports, have incredible fans that each club fan base have their own way of doing things. Womens soccer fans in the US have a very different culture than the mens clubs. Nothing personal meant here, just an honest take on your comments.
Fair enough, no offence taken. I just think if you look at how most storied football clubs originated in other places vs the US, the difference is night and day. Take Liverpool and Manchester United's rivalry, it comes down to the building of the Manchester ship canal which Liverpudlian politicians opposed but was completed in 1894. The roots are deeper. It means something, the clubs came from railway workers or dockers, churches and ironworkers, the heartbeat of the cities they represent.
MLS clubs are franchises, the origins are shallow. They adopt names in an attempt to gain legitimacy, there's no need for it to be Real Salt Lake, or Austin FC (after all, it's soccer, not football, am I right?). While the club cultures are there, the roots are still shallow. If MLS decided to just move Houston Dynamos, how much pushback do you think you'd really see? We saw in the UK, the one team that did just (Wimbledon to MK Dons) that are hated by pretty much every other club in the UK, and the phoenix club that emerged in it's place, AFC Wimbledon was build from the ground up by fans and are able to move up through the pyramid system and are now in the same league, beating the original (albeit renamed) club. Did we ever see any sort of protest when the Rams moved again from St. Louis to LA?
Maybe the two fandoms are just too different, the much smaller scale geography clearly plays a major role. Away support leads is such a huge part of European football that I can't imagine it without it. I see the club cultures, I do, it was a mistake to say they will emerge, but I can't help feeling there's much more to come. I've been to several MLS games, Orlando and Toronto were pretty good but Houston and Dallas were pretty bad as far as atmospheres go - maybe that's a Texas thing. Would love to go to Seattle, Portland or Vancouver next.
Fair enough, no offence taken. I just think if you look at how most storied football clubs originated in other places vs the US, the difference is night and day. Take Liverpool and Manchester United's rivalry, it comes down to the building of the Manchester ship canal which Liverpudlian politicians opposed but was completed in 1894. The roots are deeper. It means something, the clubs came from railway workers or dockers, churches and ironworkers, the heartbeat of the cities they represent.
MLS clubs are franchises, the origins are shallow. They adopt names in an attempt to gain legitimacy, there's no need for it to be Real Salt Lake, or Austin FC (after all, it's soccer, not football, am I right?). While the club cultures are there, the roots are still shallow. If MLS decided to just move Houston Dynamos, how much pushback do you think you'd really see? We saw in the UK, the one team that did just (Wimbledon to MK Dons) that are hated by pretty much every other club in the UK, and the phoenix club that emerged in it's place, AFC Wimbledon was build from the ground up by fans and are able to move up through the pyramid system and are now in the same league, beating the original (albeit renamed) club. Did we ever see any sort of protest when the Rams moved again from St. Louis to LA?
Maybe the two fandoms are just too different, the much smaller scale geography clearly plays a major role. Away support leads is such a huge part of European football that I can't imagine it without it. I see the club cultures, I do, it was a mistake to say they will emerge, but I can't help feeling there's much more to come. I've been to several MLS games, Orlando and Toronto were pretty good but Houston and Dallas were pretty bad as far as atmospheres go - maybe that's a Texas thing. Would love to go to Seattle, Portland or Vancouver next.
Well, of course the difference of how "most storied" football clubs originated in other places vs the US, the difference is night and day. In order to be "storied" they almost by definition have to enjoy a longer history than is possible in the US. We have that in college football. The Irish identification with Notre Dame and the cultural discrimination of irish immigrants in the US is behind the storied rivalries between Notre Dame and Michigan, going back over 100 years. The roots are deeper and it means something. But to suggest that a modern soccer club that does not have that history is somehow not genuine is a typically "English" argument to the rest of the world. It is complete and utter horsepoop. You can both respect the rivalry and history of the the Man U and Liverpool rivalry while at the same time respecting that other clubs around the world have just as deep a connection to their teams. I suspect anyone trying to suggest that Seattle does not have a connection to the Seahawks that someone from Manchester or Liverpool has to their teams would get you hurt in some parts of the city. .
MLS clubs are NOT shallow just because they are different. They do NOT adopt names in an attempt to gain legitimacy. They adopt names out of a profound RESPECT for the history of the game. Of course there is a reason to name a club Real Salt Lake or Austin FC. (And no, you are NOT right that its soccer, not football). Again, if the reason English soccer is more legitimate is just its age, well that is the most shallow thing I have ever heard.
As for a protest of US clubs moving, I suspect you know nothing of the City of Cleveland, the Browns, the litigation over the move, the fans building a new NFL team in Cleveland after the Browns left, winning the righ tot own the name, the history, the records, and making a new Browns club that is in the NFL again. You go into Cleveland with that position, yo will not come out unscathed. The Cleveland fan base is the exact example of deep club loyalty for a club that helped create the sport. Your comparison with the Rams show how little you know about the history of that club. But yes, even then there was a huge protest and some very interesting litigation which is going to cost the Rams and the NFL hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm sorry that you missed all this.
Without question the US fanbase for sports in different, but its roots are not in any way shallow. They are just different. Watch the Giants Eagles game on television the first week of January. You want to see away support in two cities with bitter rivalries in all sports, see the Giants stadium with maybe 30% green screaming and cheering. Visit the Eagles stadium where adult fans (though it was baseball in this instance) are arrested for intentionally vomiting on little girls form visiting teams (sadly a true story, our hooliganism is different, but just as vile) and they had to build a large jail in the stadium to hold the large number of arrests made each game. It is different here, but the MLS fans have significantly different cultures at their games. I found Orlando to be a literal tourist trap. Never been to Toronto, but Houston and Dallas are indeed a very Texas thing. Hell, Dallas has built the Soccer Hall of Fame, is there anything that could be more American, and stupid, than a hall of fame. Just different, but not shallow.
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