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The universe is very mysrerious. Does the universe have boundaries and if it does, whats beyond 3 demensional boundaries of space? Does the universe go on forever in all directions? The answer to either question is mind bending and seems almost unreal. But it just goes to show how little we know.
I think it should be noted that not all religions believe in creation.
The Jains hold the position that the universe has always existed and will never end. They reject creation and call it foolish. Most Buddhists hold a similar position.
That's the reason most of the time, we never get into debates with Buddhists or Jains. Their viewpoints on the "origin" of the universe don't contradict science. The evidence we have now in astronomy/cosmology supports the idea of a universe that has always existed in some form.
The evidence we have now in astronomy/cosmology supports the idea of a universe that has always existed in some form.
What evidence do we have of this? We have data that indicates that there was a big bang, but it's impossible to prove what happened prior to the big bang.
The Jains hold the position that the universe has always existed and will never end. They reject creation and call it foolish. Most Buddhists hold a similar position.
Yet.. the Buddha said..
"Whether Buddhas arise, O priests, or whether Buddhas do not arise, it remains a fact and the fixed and necessary constitution of being that all conformations are transitory. This fact a Buddha discovers and masters, and when he has discovered and mastered it,
he announces, teaches, publishes, proclaims, discloses, minutely explains and makes it clear that all conformations are transitory."
Then a monk questioned him..
"The Buddha teaches that all conformations are transient, that all conformations are subject to sorrow, that all conformations and lacking a self. How then can there be Nirvana, a state of eternal bliss?"
To which the Buddha replied..
"There is, O monks, a state where there is neither earth, nor water, nor heat, nor air; neither infinity of space nor infinity of consciousness, nor nothingness, nor perception nor non-perception; neither this world nor that world, neither sun nor moon. It is the uncreate.
That, O monks, I term neither coming nor going nor standing; neither death nor birth.
It is without stability, without change; it is the eternal which never originates and never passes away. There is the end of sorrow."
No one knows, but I will say this: do you really think you, your family and people came from an explosion in space? I don't. It is too far-fetched, and leaves many things unanswered. I think God created the universe and Earth.
Has any one ever tried weighing their perceptions.. their memories.. thoughts.. feelings.. and dreams..?
How could we weigh such as this.. ?
If we cut open the brain.. could we isolate a childhood memory.. for inspection.. ?
Can any of us prove that all our memories actually really happened.. ?
Yet we KNOW they exist.. because we wouldn’t have any sense of the person we are.. with out them.
So.. we might well ask..
Does science have its limits.. when it comes to detecting things.. ?
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by accelerator
Then.. something else we could consider is..
Out of our intangible.. perceptions.. memories thoughts.. feelings and dreams.. comes – ACTION.
Is this a case of something coming out of nothing.. ?
I don't believe so, I think every part of my being, energy and matter, came from some source in the universe. But it is not an important to the question at hand which is was there always something, or was there nothing and then something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by accelerator
Considering that our inner being is intangible.
If not.. what is it.. REALLY..?
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“What is this "I"?
You will, on close introspection, find that what you really mean by "I" is the ground-stuff upon which all experiences are collected.â€
Erwin Schroedinger
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So.. let’s say.. if the universe is expanding.. with in a dimension of potential energy.. which.. being potential.. is undetectable..
Then.. doesn’t it follow.. that ACTION can arise from this imaginary source also.. ?
Just as this message didn’t exist.. till I read your thread..
Then.. I just imagined it.. into existence.
IT'S A MIRACLE!!!
Isn't it..?
Something from nothing.
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“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force… We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.â€
Max Planck, Father of Quantum Theory
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I am not really sure if this is relevant to the question that I posed, but assuming it is, then I think we agree that it seems that something can arise from nothing in the universe. That is what I tend to believe given the possibilities. Or maybe I have completely misunderstood you and you are actually arguing that there is no such thing as "nothing" and so something must have always existed. Either answer is a good as the other. Thanks for the thought provoking post.
What evidence do we have of this? We have data that indicates that there was a big bang, but it's impossible to prove what happened prior to the big bang.
Two things..
Spontaneous generation (which has been proven false) is essentially something from nothing. If such a thing isn't possible, then the contents of the universe couldn't have just appeared out of nowhere.
First law of thermodynamics in physics which states matter and energy can not be created nor destroyed. No beginning and no end. The universe and everything in it (including us) is made of energy and matter. If those contents have no beginning, our universe couldn't have just came out of nowhere.
No one knows, but I will say this: do you really think you, your family and people came from an explosion in space? I don't. It is too far-fetched, and leaves many things unanswered. I think God created the universe and Earth.
Anything sounds far-fetched when you have the Christian's definition of something that was made up to discredit science.
The Big Bang has nothing to do with an explosion. Unlike you, I understand both sides of the spectrum. I used to be a Christian. I'm also well educated in the sciences, so I understand that as well.
You shouldn't criticize something unless you have the same level of understanding of it as people like me. Next, you'll probably say evolution has no evidence and there is no truth in it.
Location: Midessa, Texas Home Yangzhou, Jiangsu temporarily
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney12
No one knows, but I will say this: do you really think you, your family and people came from an explosion in space? I don't. It is too far-fetched, and leaves many things unanswered. I think God created the universe and Earth.
I do think that I came from an explosion, or rather a singularity, in space, or least the matter and energy that I am composed of did. But that was not really my question. This is not a big bang vs. divine creation debate. Let's assume that God did create the universe, that would still not explain the origin of the "stuff" that we label as God. Some have said that God exist outside of time but if that is so, then how can there be a moment of creation? If there is no time for God then he cannot be Alpha and Omega because in a timeless existence the terms Alpha and Omega would be undefined.
No one knows, but I will say this: do you really think you, your family and people came from an explosion in space? I don't. It is too far-fetched, and leaves many things unanswered. I think God created the universe and Earth.
Well I can't see how an imaginary invisible super-being would either but that would be very incredulous of me so ill put my money in y'know the side that actually has some objective evidence to back it up.
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The Uncreated
