ADHD 7-year-old who can't stop talking back (autism, Asperger, activity)
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Trying second medication now for my 7-year-old son which has its benefits: so much better appetite, gaining weight like a champ, happier, smiles and laughs more, far less anger but still the backtalk, arguing, debating... remains. This kid has been debating his teachers since the age of 4 in preschool and not sure what to do about it. Even his social worker told me when she and I just met that the traditional idea of parenting for me and DH must go out the window: counseling him, trying to let him to see his behavior through other eyes (his teacher's, classmates and friends), and just plain talking to him doesn't work! She said the less we talk to him when he's being obstinate the better. Sometimes we just lose it because he won't simply do what we're asking, "But what if this, what if that, I just wanted, let me just do this first, I'm in the middle of..." it goes on and on. I even started telling him, "I'll give you 5 minutes to finish what you're doing and then you need to change into your pyjamas." Does that work? No. "5 more minutes?" "Why not? Why are you being so mean?" "So unfair!" when I tell him his 5 minutes are up. He'll occasionally throw himself on the floor and start to cry but thankfully, those incidents are now *just* starting to decrease. He'll just give a very sour face at me ongoing for several minutes which sends DH into the stratosphere. He complains constantly about pretty much everything - if his breakfast isn't the same as it is everyday of his life, if his dinner looks wrong, if he has to do homework, if he has to brush his teeth.... things he's been doing a very long time.
Unlike his 4-year-old brother, he simply does not say "Ok, mom," which was advised by the social worker; she said to limit him to few words and cut him off if he starts to go on and on about why he won't do it. She said it's easy to get caught up in a debate with him and it'll be never-ending. He's bright and manipulative (high functioning Aspergers). For example, the newest medication he's taking seemed to coincide with ongoing nasal congestion (or is it its cause?) and he asked me for a tissue. The tissue box was inches from him and I said "You can get a tissue right there," after which he comes up to me with big eyes and says, "If your my mother and my friend, aren't you supposed to do anything for me? So why didn't you get me a tissue?" Can you believe this kid???
My biggest concern is that we are relocating to Dallas soon and I lost it the other day with him when he simply wouldn't listen to anything I said in the car. I told him that I was tired of his constantly getting an x on his behavior chart at school and he better shape up with his new teacher and classmates. I know that was unfair to put that kind of pressure on him, but my internal worries slipped out when he kept baiting me with "I don't care that I get an x." Star is great day, x is a bad day. We've been working closely with his 1st grade teacher (eons better than last year's experience) and she said that the new medication is working well, that he's not as suppressed and tired as he used to be and no longer complains of a hurting stomach at lunchtime. She also agreed he's less angry (rips up artwork if it doesn't perfectly match the model) BUT she says he still argues with her ALL the time. She makes a simple request, he either says no or tells her he'll do it later for some, long drawn-out reason. He makes himself the center of attention and whatever fit he has about being "made" to do something about a topic he doesn't like to write about, it disrupts the rest of the class. He sat under his chair one time and cried. I like the teacher a lot but I do worry about him undermining her almost daily. He also is one of those kids who monologues and you can't get a word in edgewise. He interrupts constantly and when we remind him to say "Excuse Me," he says it quickly and then launches into his story. When we tell him he needs to wait because someone else is talking, he starts to get upset saying that he will forget. His little brother gets so angry that he can't contribute to a conversation. His latest thing is when I correct a word he has said wrong, He says, "I know" and refuses to repeat the word. I love my son but he's a 7-year-old know-it-all who doesn't actually know it all (but doesn't believe that). He's always talking about how he can't wait to leave my house and live on his own.
We have a 504 plan that will be transferred to the new school and we have all of the tests showing he's gifted/ADHD/Aspergers but I'm just worried he's going to make a poor impression right off the bat. As it is, the transition I'm sure might throw him for a loop. He hates change and when there's change, his behavior goes way off the rails. But I'm really, really, tired of the backtalk, debate and maybe not outright defiance but lack of respect for authority completely. I'm exhausted by it and am having a hard time truly enjoying time with him. I feel guilty that spending time with my younger one is a pleasure. We can go anywhere together, he listens and helps me carry things and apologizes immediately when he does something wrong. I feel really guilty that I don't feel the same way about my older one. Granted DH and I are under a lot of stress: my father passed away in January, DH's job is relocating, I'm trying to find a new job there too, selling our house, in the midst of buying a new house, and getting ready to move away from Grandma who is spending every moment she can with the boys... BUT even with all of that, we can't spend these final weeks losing our **** with our older son on a daily basis. We do *not* want to up his medication dosage. Although suppressing him seems like the easy answer, we don't want to lose his personality again.
Sorry so long. I really can't share all of this with DH because he just says, like my Dad come to think about it, "Just take it as it comes" which frustrates me. But it sounds simple enough right?
Razz, I might just PM you later when I have some time. If you do a search on here you mayfind a very similar post I wrote last yr. I've had a few. We are running on parralel lives, except mine is with an 8 year old girl. BIGGGG HUGS.
I dont have much time but want to tell you, 1- It does get better. 2-It may not be the way you always envisioned, but it'll all work out ok. 3- i have said far worse things than you in my moment of absolute terror/anger, etc.
My son has Autism, ADHD, and Anxiety. He went through what turned out to be a phase of what you describe.
I don't want to post too much because honestly people on the forums can sometimes be mean and judgemental, but know that you're not alone, and if you want to chat I am happy to do so privately.
Hm, sorry I don't know much about ADHD so I can't really help, but just wanted to say that my four year old, who doesn't have any diagnoses (aside from some anxiety) and absolutely no attention issues, is exactly like you describe - he'll talk back and negotiate and debate every single thing. And god forbid you try to interrupt him in the middle of his tirade, he'll scream and then start over from the beginning And he's 4! I can only imagine what it'll be like at 7. I don't think its necessarily an ADHD issue, but it is more typical of gifted, very bright and spirited kids, and on some level I think its a good quality to have - I've known kids like that who would torture college profs with incessant questions and counter points, and these were generally inquisitive, confident, sharp-as-a-whip boys who probably went on to become lawyers or something. Smart kids are logical, and curious, and they want to practice that logic and apply it to their lives, and control things.
The issue is directing it properly and teaching him where its okay, and where it crosses the line into disturbance and disrespect. Have you tried martial arts for him? They're generally very good for harnessing that energy and teaching discipline and respect for others and for authority. Or is there maybe some sort of debate club he could join at school to channel that quality? Just a suggestion, good luck!
Hm, sorry I don't know much about ADHD so I can't really help, but just wanted to say that my four year old, who doesn't have any diagnoses (aside from some anxiety) and absolutely no attention issues, is exactly like you describe - he'll talk back and negotiate and debate every single thing. And god forbid you try to interrupt him in the middle of his tirade, he'll scream and then start over from the beginning And he's 4! I can only imagine what it'll be like at 7. I don't think its necessarily an ADHD issue, but it is more typical of gifted, very bright and spirited kids, and on some level I think its a good quality to have - I've known kids like that who would torture college profs with incessant questions and counter points, and these were generally inquisitive, confident, sharp-as-a-whip boys who probably went on to become lawyers or something. Smart kids are logical, and curious, and they want to practice that logic and apply it to their lives, and control things.
The issue is directing it properly and teaching him where its okay, and where it crosses the line into disturbance and disrespect. Have you tried martial arts for him? They're generally very good for harnessing that energy and teaching discipline and respect for others and for authority. Or is there maybe some sort of debate club he could join at school to channel that quality? Just a suggestion, good luck!
I wanted to touch on this bolded part. This is very true. I started my daughter in karate the summer after kindergarten and she is now a blue belt with a kyu, testing for purple belt in a few weeks, she is now in 2nd grade. I saw a major improvement from where we were (on meds too) and where we are (still on meds, but much less) now. You have to find a good fit but karate has been a life saver.
This is not an ADHD problem. It is seen very, very frequently in people with Asperger's.
This is an interesting link written by an Aspie with a unique perspective and explanation on the always arguing aspect of it.
Unfortunately, the font is not easy to read. However, the suggestions are excellent and may help. Try to read through it and see if applying some of the suggestions will work.
Willow wind, my daughter is the very same way and two doctors and a psychologists has made it clear she does not have aspergers. I absolutely believe it would be tied in because of how some of the symptoms overlap but to say this isn't an ADHD thing isn't quite accurate. I think some children are more strong willed than others and that plays a big part on whether or not its seen in a child.
We'll agree to disagree. There is a very big difference between a strong willed child who is just trying to be manipulative and get his or her way. All kids will try to do this, ADHD or not--it's part of being a kid- lol. If they can wear down the parent, they will.
Then there is the child whose brain is wired a bit differently and thus sees the world from a slightly different perspective. In such cases, the child is not necessarily trying to be a pain in the neck. Then the kiddo just is not registering the social clues that others easily learn.
We'll agree to disagree. There is a very big difference between a strong willed child who is just trying to be manipulative and get his or her way. All kids will try to do this, ADHD or not--it's part of being a kid- lol. If they can wear down the parent, they will.
Then there is the child whose brain is wired a bit differently and thus sees the world from a slightly different perspective. In such cases, the child is not necessarily trying to be a pain in the neck. Then the kiddo just is not registering the social clues that others easily learn.
Read the link- see if any of the tips work.
Kids with ADHD have problems with social cues too. Running at the mouth can be a byproduct of hyperactivity, especially for girls.
I'll definitely take a look at the link when I have some time. My daughter has a bunch of "symptoms" fitting to aspies but she also plays independently, makes good eye contact, extremely verbal- it has been ruled out twice. She is bad at social cues, personal space and getting her point across. I think some children with ADHD do see the world in a different light than "typical" children. Half the time I have to ask follow up questions to my DD because what comes out of her mouth is only understandable to her, to me its a bunch of half thoughts running together. I understand her more than most people, but thats my job and I've had practice, yet she is not dx'd with aspergers.
I just want the OP to know she is not alone in this struggle. It can truly feel like nobody else "gets it". Some people do, I really do.
OP- feel free to PM me anytime. Sometimes just having a support system from someone who understands can make the world of difference. No judgements here, just an open ear (or eyes in this case).
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As it is, the transition I'm sure might throw him for a loop. He hates change and when there's change, his behavior goes way off the rails. But I'm really, really, tired of the backtalk, debate and maybe not outright defiance but lack of respect for authority completely. I'm exhausted by it and am having a hard time truly enjoying time with him. I feel guilty that spending time with my younger one is a pleasure. We can go anywhere together, he listens and helps me carry things and apologizes immediately when he does something wrong. I feel really guilty that I don't feel the same way about my older one. 
And he's 4! I can only imagine what it'll be like at 7. I don't think its necessarily an ADHD issue, but it is more typical of gifted, very bright and spirited kids, and on some level I think its a good quality to have - I've known kids like that who would torture college profs with incessant questions and counter points, and these were generally inquisitive, confident, sharp-as-a-whip boys who probably went on to become lawyers or something. Smart kids are logical, and curious, and they want to practice that logic and apply it to their lives, and control things.
