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How do you handle disrespectful students when the office won't support you?
I have two students, in the same class of course, who simply will not follow my instructions. They make it a point not to. When I've sent them to the office, for insubordination, they get a slap on the wrist and they're back in my room while I get notes in my PR for overuse of the office for classroom discipline. It's something every single day.
What do you do with a student who...
Refuses to go to their seat (chosen so they can't disrupt other classmates)?
Walks into the room eating and when told to take the food out of the room, continues eating then sits down, pulls out a soft drink and proceeds to drink it after being told to take it outside?
Insists on talking loudly across the room because she can't sit next to her friends (whcih disturbs other students who actually do their work in class)?
Refuses or pretends to work?
Refuses to put a cell phone away (usually because I didn't catch someone else with theirs out (I know I don't catch them all. No teacher does.)- she claims it's not fair and that I'm picking on her)
...when you know the office will not support you. Unfortunately, one of the two is now certain not to graduate and is becomming more of a PITA than usual. There are 8 weeks to go until the end of the year and I feel like this situation has just erupted in my face...of course my PR is in three weeks....it figures...
I need strategies for dealing with these girls that don't involve sending them to the office. They don't care if they fail study hall (yes they get credit for this class...go figure). Calling parents will not help. One girl's parents don't care and the other girl's parents are very wealthy and don't believe their princess could do anything wrong. It MUST be the teacher. The admins will side with the parents.
How do I get through the next 8 weeks and keep my sanity?
Um.
When I was in school, people like that would get kicked out of the classroom.
If you can't send 'em to the office, make 'em sit outside. Just not in YOUR classroom.
If it's a matter of proof, tape it.
Um.
When I was in school, people like that would get kicked out of the classroom.
If you can't send 'em to the office, make 'em sit outside. Just not in YOUR classroom.
If it's a matter of proof, tape it.
Yup, they would have been kicked out when I was in school too. Times have changed and not for the better.
Taping it will ge me into trouble. One of our vetearan teachers took a picture of a student sleeping in class to prove to his parents he was sleeping in class and got into trouble for it. However, I'm wondering if tapes could be used in court if needed. It this mess costs me my job, it would be good to have evidence. I think I'll go shopping for a camera for my computer. I just won't use the tapes unless I need them.
Sitting one of them out in the hall will work for one of them. I think I'll try that. However the one I'd pick is on a no pass list and if she walks away it will be on me.
^^^That"s a good point. Find out from your Teachers Assoc. or Dept of Labor, or whatever organization would be your Go To if you got fired for continuing to send them to office. It is a very difficult situation. It sounds as thought your hands are tied, and that the other students are being sabotaged by these two, as well as being bad influences their are disturbing the other students ability to learn.
What a horrible situation you are in.
My thoughts are that you have to think of way to put them on display....but even that might be used against you. I was thinking something like having them do a presentation as they walk in the classroom.....impromptu....like
Oh..."Beth" We were just discussing the classroom rules....Great example...Bringing a drink and food into class..Please demonstrate how this might be considered disruptive....Please...Up front so that we can all see. Yes, Class, silent so that we can hear the eating and drinking noises, and get a good example of why we do not do that in class"
"Tiffany....I see that you brought your cell phone out....Please demonstrate a call so that other students can understand how disruptive that is" Please, right up front.....Sure....Call your parents...Lets use this as a great example of "What not to do"
Now....While these students are up front demonstrating....Take comments from the other students...Write these on the board, call on students...."Michael"...Using this demonstration by (insert name) Name a "pro" and a "Con" concerning talking on the phone while in class? Next student....so on.... Same re: Eating....This will distract the disruptive students....it will make what they are doing seem like a good thing while you are demonstrating to the other kids. Contrary kids like these disruptive students will probably get less thrill out of doing these in class....Because what they are really doing is trying to get a rise out of you...Turn it around on them.
Not sure if this would work....But it might be worth a try.
N
Last edited by JanND; 04-20-2013 at 05:58 AM..
Reason: edit text
I always avoided involving the administration unless someone was a serious threat to myself or another student. That way when I did need them, they were responsive because they knew it was truly serious. Instead I would put a student like that in neighboring classroom. (And I allowed other teachers to do the same if they needed to remove a student.) There is no way I would just put a student in the hall unsupervised because they tend to go wandering around, and I didn't want to be liable.
I always avoided involving the administration unless someone was a serious threat to myself or another student. That way when I did need them, they were responsive because they knew it was truly serious. Instead I would put a student like that in neighboring classroom. (And I allowed other teachers to do the same if they needed to remove a student.) There is no way I would just put a student in the hall unsupervised because they tend to go wandering around, and I didn't want to be liable.
That's a great idea if they don't just refuse to go. Other teachers don't have any more leverage than I do. I think this would be something that would have had to have been set up from the start. I can see my three biggest offenders (the ring leader, and her two best friends...one of whom will do what she's supposed to if the ring leader is not there.) just refusing to go with that "Make me" look they like to give. They can't refuse to go to the office but nothing happens when they go to the office other than they're put in a room together and allowed to work together for the hour. HGowever, this is something I will suggest to the admins. If they would support us sending a student who refused to go to the other teacher's room to the office, this could work. We need some teeth here.
What is most annoying with this is that IF the admins would clamp down on these students early in the year, situations like this would not arise. IMO, a teacher should be able to quickly kick trouble makers out of the class and have the admins support them by giving detentions and or in school suspensions. If it was one strike you're out from the first day of the term, by week three, you wouldn't have anyone going to the office. The problem is the pattern is, teacher must warn the student about THAT behavior then write the student up and have the office warn the student about that behavior two or three times before anything actually happens. They just switch behaviors when they get close to something happening. It's eating in class one day, refusal to sit where they're supposed to another, yelling across the room the next, then friends of the students in question join in....
It is so sad that the few ruin things for the many. My mistake was not nailing every student in this class to the floor on day one. Never mind that 80% of them don't deserve that. I had good intentions. My plan was that if students came in prepared and worked most of the time and cleaned up after themselves, I'd be lenient on things like sitting where they want with who they want, having a snack, listening to ipods while working or even the occaisional day when they just blow off study hall (as long as they have no late assignments and are passing their classes) BUT I have a group that when given an inch, takes a mile. They refused to work so I had to start separating kids.
To be "fair" (my biggest offenders complaint to the management is I'm not fair), I had to put all the kids in assigned seats. As a teacher, I should be able to make a distinction between students who do and don't create issues and not have the adminstration riding me for not being "fair".
If I had a do over, I think I'd go to a voucher system. They'd earn vouchers which could be used for things like a blow off day as long as they're passing their classes (they're supposed to be getting help from me or one of the three academic mentors in the class). I'd do something like give one voucher for week they did what they were supposed to every day. Then the kids who usually work could take that blow off day without penalty every now and again. I'm so sick of "fair". Fair is NOT everyone gets the same. In this case, it would be far more fair to give everyone what they earned. I have kids who earn the right to blow off the class every now and again by coming in the other days and doing what they're supposed to do and kids who blow off the class all the time who should just fail (believe it or not, they get credit for this class).
I have one of those 15 yr olds at home who is a stepchild. Just remember the world needs toilet cleaners, ditch diggers, and pole dancers too.
I am an evil stepfather and no amount of discipline has helped, none. How do you give up without giving up?
Just remind the other students that they will always be able to stay in touch with "sally" by visiting their local fast food chain.
Told you I was evil.
I love it.
While you're reminding them about the ease of keeping in touch after their school days, DO mention the great employment opportunities of toilet cleaning, ditch digging, and pole dancing. They need reality.
It's not like these girls don't have a future.
With all seriousness, right now my only concern would be to gather enough evidence to protect myself.
While you're reminding them about the ease of keeping in touch after their school days, DO mention the great employment opportunities of toilet cleaning, ditch digging, and pole dancing. They need reality.
It's not like these girls don't have a future.
With all seriousness, right now my only concern would be to gather enough evidence to protect myself.
You are correct. One of the kids in this class came to me after school on Friday and told me that if I need him to, he will talk to the principal and defend me. The girls, of course, are trying to blame me. The funny thing is, this kid is one I have to pull back in line now and again. He is, however, not disrespectful. He'll just try to get away with what he can. I find it interesting that he's the one who came to me. I think I'll take him up on this offer on Monday.
While you're reminding them about the ease of keeping in touch after their school days, DO mention the great employment opportunities of toilet cleaning, ditch digging, and pole dancing. They need reality.
It's not like these girls don't have a future.
With all seriousness, right now my only concern would be to gather enough evidence to protect myself.
I'm thinking more like multiple baby daddies paying child support here.... Only one pole dancer possibility in this group and she's the least likely to be the pole dancer. It's the girl who will work and actually does try WHEN her friends are not there. Sadly, if I could get two of them out of the room, this girl could make some progress. I managed to pull three girls out of this group with selective seating arrangments who are making nice progress now towards passing the classes they're in my class to get help with.
I think you're right about protecting myself. I'm thinking a video camera is in line. I may get my hand smacked for getting one but it beats not being able to protect myself.
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Only one pole dancer possibility in this group and she's the least likely to be the pole dancer. It's the girl who will work and actually does try WHEN her friends are not there. Sadly, if I could get two of them out of the room, this girl could make some progress. I managed to pull three girls out of this group with selective seating arrangments who are making nice progress now towards passing the classes they're in my class to get help with. 
