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As a student, I recall it being very disruptive even though the replacement teacher was a better teacher. My thought would be that the school districts should blackball the teachers, unofficially. That is, have an unofficial policy of not hiring them if they do this during a school term. They should have a pool of substitutes that can finish a quitting teacher's school term if the teacher has to leave as oppose to electing to leave.
If a guy cheats on his wife to be with you, pretty soon he'll cheat on you, too.
They do blackball teachers officially and is called leaving with prejudice. In some states no other district in that state can hire you for a given period ( 2 years in some) and some districts put a letter in your file that you are never to be hired again by that district.
None of which would matter much to somebody who is leaving the post for another profession and doesn't intend to teach in the future, I'm guessing.
In terms of teachers switching from one teaching position/one school or district to another midyear, I would also be very skeptical of a school or district that makes a practice of poaching teachers from others midyear. I've heard of it in private schools (which is why many have noncompete-type contracts that employees must sign), but not typically in public schools.
As a student, I recall it being very disruptive even though the replacement teacher was a better teacher. My thought would be that the school districts should blackball the teachers, unofficially. That is, have an unofficial policy of not hiring them if they do this during a school term. They should have a pool of substitutes that can finish a quitting teacher's school term if the teacher has to leave as oppose to electing to leave.
If a guy cheats on his wife to be with you, pretty soon he'll cheat on you, too.
Please explain how a teacher with an at will contract leaving is equated to cheating on your spouse?
They do blackball teachers officially and is called leaving with prejudice. In some states no other district in that state can hire you for a given period ( 2 years in some) and some districts put a letter in your file that you are never to be hired again by that district.
That's pretty harsh for an at will employee and I really don't understand it. By locking in teachers, you pretty much insure that the best teachers won't have the best jobs. They'll have whatever job they were locked into because the opportunity to move probably won't be there when it's deemed acceptable by the powers that be.
The problem here is teachers don't usually get all offers at the same time and there's a time limit to accepting. What is the best offer you've seen today may pale by comparison to the next offer. I really don't get locking teachers in like this. It means that only one's lucky enough to either get good offers at an acceptable time or to be unemployed after the school year starts when an offer will come late get the better jobs instead of the better teachers getting the better jobs.
I can understand not rehiring a teacher who leaves for any reason though. This actually applies to any employee who leaves any company. Obviously, they were unhappy enough to leave once. There's a serious risk they will be again.
Of course it's opinion.
It is the large majority of students' opinions that having their teacher leave mid-term, especially with no advance notice, is disruptive to their learning.
It is a FACT that this is their opinion and THEIR EXPERIENCE when it has happened.
I have not claimed that the teacher does not have the right to do so. The teacher has the right to do so even when the contract provides penalties for it, so long as the teacher is prepared to pay (or fight) the penalties.
It is a FACT that a large percentage of people believe teachers should not leave midterm on no notice merely for money or personal convenience.
I never claimed everybody feels this way - it is blatantly obvious, to be redundantly repetitious, that people feel otherwise - including, but not restricted to, that small percentage of teachers who does so. Just as my poll shows a huge percentage finds it disruptive, it also showed that some kids only care when it is a teacher they like, and other kids don't care at all. No shocks there.
It is the large majority of students' opinions that having their teacher leave mid-term, especially with no advance notice, is disruptive to their learning.
It is a FACT that this is their opinion and THEIR EXPERIENCE when it has happened.
I have not claimed that the teacher does not have the right to do so. The teacher has the right to do so even when the contract provides penalties for it, so long as the teacher is prepared to pay (or fight) the penalties.
It is a FACT that a large percentage of people believe teachers should not leave midterm on no notice merely for money or personal convenience.
I never claimed everybody feels this way - it is blatantly obvious, to be redundantly repetitious, that people feel otherwise - including, but not restricted to, that small percentage of teachers who does so. Just as my poll shows a huge percentage finds it disruptive, it also showed that some kids only care when it is a teacher they like, and other kids don't care at all. No shocks there.
Please cite the sources for your facts.
My kids have lost teachers mid year. Honestly, the only time it was an issue was when the school made the teacher out to be the villan. The other teacher, they simply threw a party for and she left. I'm not sure why she left but the school didn't make a big deal of it (different school) The kids wrote her emails for a while and then forgot her as they settled in with their new teacher.
I will admit, as a parent, I was upset but after living through it, I realize, like many things we dread, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Lessons went on, kids learned and six weeks later, no one was any worse for the wear. Were there rough days? Sure but those happen when a teacher has the flu too and you just deal with them.
What puzzles me is if schools are so opposed to us leaving, why are we at will employees? My contract clearly states that it can be broken by either party for any reason at any time. I signed nothing saying I'll stay the entire year. It amounts to a wage agreement. The same kind I signed when I was an engineer.
As I said before, if you really want your teachers to stay, give them an end of year bonus they have to stay all year to get. Or you could pay them enough that they won't want to leave. Problem solved. The problem is they want their cake and to eat it too. By blackballing teachers (or threatening to) they can keep wages low because once you have a teacher signed on, they feel they can't leave.
That's really a lousy way to treat your teachers.
Here it's districts who hire teachers away from private or charter schools after the year starts. Charters seem to all have the same miserable pay scale. You have to get into a district to make a decent wage. Fortunately, our contracts are at will contracts. If they tried to do something negative because I chose to leave, I'd sue and win beause I have the legal right to leave at any time for any reason.
Give it a rest. I've provided poll results. You ignored them, three times now.
You have counter evidence, instead of wishful thinking? If so, let me know, Ivory. I won't hold my breath.
This is kind of like the multiple times you asked me about my own income and benefits, even though I had answered it, more than once.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
My kids have lost teachers mid year.
Yes, you've told this story of one family's experience.
I've already granted that not every child's experience is the same.
It would be nice if you could grant the obvious - that having an interruption in the semester of days and weeks in one's classes is going to have a negative effect on total learning - or why bother having the year run as long?!
Give it a rest. I've provided poll results. You ignored them, three times now.
You have counter evidence, instead of wishful thinking? If so, let me know, Ivory. I won't hold my breath.
This is kind of like the multiple times you asked me about my own income and benefits, even though I had answered it, more than once.
Yes, you've told this story of one family's experience.
I've already granted that not every child's experience is the same.
It would be nice if you could grant the obvious - that having an interruption in the semester of days and weeks in one's classes is going to have a negative effect on total learning - or why bother having the year run as long?!
Poll results are not proof . Cite your sources. You are claiming that a teacher leaving creates this great disruption. All a poll says is how people percieve something. They often percieve things wrong. Polls are public opinion. They are not proof. Post your data.
Tell us what harm comes to students who have a teacher leave. What should be wrong with my daughters because they've each had one leave after the year started? Trust me, having a day care provider leave was a lot worse. Major trust issues with her replacement because she left. Yet, no one would argue against her right to take the best job she can find.
Kids are old enough to understand a teacher leaving by the time they start school. A lot of how they handle the situation has to do with how the adults handle the situation. My experience is that the transition went much smoother in the case where they threw the teacher a party and wished her well. The case where they villified her didn't go so well. However, later in the year when the school chose to move teachers around for a "best fit", it went off smoothly even after coming on the heels of the villan teacher leaving.
Just because people think something is a disruption doesn't mean it doesn't work out. The question isn't whether it's a disruption but whether or not a teacher owes it to a school to pass on improving her life to avoid that disruption. No one has the right to ask the teacher to pass when opportunity knocks. The disruption isn't bad enough to expect that of her. And you can't ask if your'e not willing to ante up and pay what she loses by staying.
Please cite your psychological studies on the long term effect of teachers leaving mid year. I don't care to hear short term ones. If the impact is only short term, it's nothing to worry about. It's only something to worry about if it has long term ramifications like my dd's dcp leaving did. Of course, it was her right to leave (and I do believe it was her right, I'm simply pointing out that a dcp leaving has far more impact but we don't lay the same guilt trip and try to lock them into accepting less than they're worth because of it.)
The only long term impact I see to my dd losing her teacher stems from the negativity of the school surrounding her leaving. If they'd thrown her a party and wished her well, my dd never would have been so angry with her. What upset her was that her teacher was a "liar" and labeled as unethical. Someone she trusted turned out to be untrustworthy. Had this been presented as "We're sorry to see her go but this is best" , allowed her to stay in email contact with the kids and let her visit when she came ot the school, the kids would have moved on much quicker.
We face losses our entire lives. Friends move, neighbors move, we move, people change jobs...and we deal with it. Why should it be unethical for a teacher to expect the same? Teachers (and day care providers) are not parents. They didn't take an oath to stand by a certain set of kids regardless of personal circumstances. They didn't agree to limit their opportunities because of one group of kids. A teacher can touch whatever group she works with. We have a teacher quitting to stay home with her baby in 9 weeks. Her classes will do just fine I'm sure.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-07-2009 at 06:07 PM..
How could a change in teachers NOT be an issue? This insistance that teachers are just a set of skills, and not actual living, breathing people who forge connections with kids is, frankly, troubling. Kids need consistency. It's true that people move on, that students will probably do well with other teachers, but -- and especially in the case of kids who have the least consistency in other parts of their lives -- it is disruptive to have a teacher leave mid-term. It doesn't mean they'll be scarred for life, by any means, but how could it possibly fail to be disruptive? And, in an era with increasingly high-stakes testing and strict schedules, being thrown off a couple of weeks could have other implications, too. A short-term impact could therefore become a long-term issue, like it or not.
And again, maternity leave (or staying home with kids) is a completely different reason for leaving, and I would guess that most adults and children perceive it in a different way.
Aren't most schools by 4th grade are departmentalized, with different teachers for most classes- English, Social Studies, Math, Science, Specials? Does a change in a kid's life for 30 minutes a day really throw them for such a loop??
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Or you could pay them enough that they won't want to leave. Problem solved. The problem is they want their cake and to eat it too. By blackballing teachers (or threatening to) they can keep wages low because once you have a teacher signed on, they feel they can't leave.
. Cite your sources. You are claiming that a teacher leaving creates this great disruption. All a poll says is how people percieve something. They often percieve things wrong. Polls are public opinion. They are not proof. Post your data.
