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Why bother asking your question if you already knew your answer?
I agree that the schools are behaving inappropriately.
"It's not the teacher's views on money that are off here.
It's not ONLY the teacher's views on money that are off here. Two wrongs do not make a right. I would not compound the school's error with my own.
I was pleasantly surprised when I saw you had asked the question. I should not have been.
You and I already know we have different perspectives on this. I live by mine. You are free to live by yours.
I have been labeled a sucker for many years by people for my approach to my work - but I am the person I have to answer to when I wake up in the morning.
Because it's worth debating??? Why debate anything? We usually have our own feelings on the matter. Which, sometimes leads to learning something.
My take is if the school isn't going to take care of me and mine and I have a chance to take a job where they will, I'd be a fool not to take it no matter when it's offered. Pepper this with the fact the school has, twice, broken my "contract" by changing my benefits to save them more and cost me more. THEY treat it like a standard employment contract. Why wouldn't I?
Actually, two wrongs do make a right here. The teacher rights the situation with her pay. What if this is the only opportunity that this teacher gets to do so? What if turning this down means she's stuck where she is? Opportunity, unfortunately, doesn't knock when it's convenient all the time. There are two waves of hiring per year. One in April/May and one in August/September.
So tell me, why do I owe anything to a school that doesn't think enough of me to pay me a decent salary? IMO, it's not me who is creating this issue. It's them. They have the power to stop teachers from leaving. It's not like they are silent about their reasons. When you look at my ajusted benefits, I now make 15% less than I hired in at last year and they never give raises. That being the case, it's clear they just intend us to leave when we find something better. They **** and moan if it happens in September but they do this to themselves.
There is no requirement to sacrifice my family for this school when the school doesn't care about my family. In industry, it's not at all unusual to take a job until a better one comes along.
FTR, how long did you work for schools that paid less than the minimum for a teacher of your qualifications that had lousy and very expensive medical benefits and no retirement plan? Like many, I have to take what I can get until something better comes along. I wish that opportunity would come mid summer but I have to take it whenever it arrives because it may not make a repeat appearance.
Their are two pairs of wrongs here. School is wrong for it's pay scale and teacher is wrong for staying because she sacrifices her own family's well being and school is wrong fro their pay scale and teacher is wrong for leaving becasue she's viewed as unethical by people like you but takes care of her family. There is no right. If the opportunity presents itself, I can right the situation for my family though.
If you have a chance to get a government job in this economic environment, I would advise you to go for it. Please remember in the private sector, including charter schools, there are NO ethics, employment or otherwise.
Actually, this contract doesn't say anything about termination. It just says I'm contracting to work 200 days for $x pay. There are no penalties for termination either way.
I'm not worried about the contract. It's the ethics. A district job solves every issue I have with teaching. I can settle in for the long haul. I really like that idea. One thing I hate about this job is feeling like I can't grow roots because, one way or the other, I have to figure out how to pay the bills if not this year then next or the following. A district job won't be much more pay up front but there will be raises and living paycheck to paycheck when you know you have a future is different than doing it knowing it's permanent.
Actually ethics go hand in hand with contracts. If it's allowed by the contract then what you want to do is not unethical because your motivation is to better yourself, not to stick it to your current job. If you merely wanted to walk out because you are done with the job, that would be unethical.
If your contract does not allow it, then your choosing to do so in spite of that would then be unethical because you are choosing to do something you know is wrong.
As I posted before, there are many people who leave jobs shortly after they start....so would you even be asking this question if you had say a health issue and HAD to stop working? No. You would be doing it for your own health and there would be no reason to feel one ounce of guilt. Same goes for taking a job to better yourself.
That's true of union districts when the teacher belongs to the union here. As far as I know, the state doesn't sanction teachers who leave one job for another, regardless of the circumstances. The union is another matter. The "contract" in question is an at will contract though it's "assumed" that it's for the year. Legally, this contract isn't worth the paper it's written on as evidenced by the fact this employer reduced benefits twice last year as a cost save, in spite of existing contracts, which was the equivalent of a pay cut for the teachers because they had to pay for benefits they were given before or just do without .)
This isn't really an issue of contracts or asked because of one. It's an ethics issue. The question is, once a teacher has accepted a position are they obligated to pass on better positions that might come along that they didn't know about when they signed their contract because of the assumption a teacher will be there a year at a time? Or are they like any other employee and free to find better employment whenever it may come along? It is not unusual in industry to take one job until another better job comes along. Do teachers have the same right? Or are they held to a higher standard that says they have to sacrifice their own families futures once they accept a position. That only positions that are offered at the right time of the year can be accepted. Are they required to remain unemployed until the right job comes along? Or is it ok to take a job to make do until a better job comes along?
Right now, this is hypothetical but it looks like I'm going to be asked to interview for a math position in a district I could work for until I retire and be happy working for. Asking this question is putting the cart before the horse but I've seen teachers badmouthed, at this school, for quitting after the school year starts before. Unfortunately, sometimes that's when the opportunity to take a better job comes along. So, are teachers required to pass on better jobs that come along or are they like any other employee who has the right to take something better if/when it comes along? Legally, there is nothing binding. In fact, no employment contract is really binding. Lincoln freed the slaves so no one can make you work for them. In industry, it is not unusual to take a job to have a job while you continue looking for a better job. In fact, there is a saying that it's easier to find a job when you have a job. No one really bats an eye if someone jumps ship to take a better offer. In fact they kind of think you're nuts if you don't. You're supposed to think enough of yourself to go after the best job you can get unless there's good reason for settling for less. Does the same apply to teachers? Discuss the ethics....
Many might argue it is a matter of what the contract says. If the contract allows it perhaps it is then a matter of conscience and if the contract would be broken then it becomes ethics.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ethics
Noun, pl
1. a code of behaviour, esp. of a particular group, profession, or individual: business ethics
2. the moral fitness of a decision, course of action, etc.
Is not a contract a document used to establish the boundaries and terms of employment? Would not operating within the rules established be ethical? Would operating outside the boundaries be perhaps something else?
1. a code of behaviour, esp. of a particular group, profession, or individual: business ethics
Because it's worth debating??? Why debate anything? We usually have our own feelings on the matter. Which, sometimes leads to learning something.
Yeah, right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Actually, two wrongs do make a right here. The teacher rights the situation with her pay.
If there were only two parties, you'd be right.
There are three parties (at least).
The first wrong is done by the school to students and teachers.
The second wrong is done by the teacher to the students and the school.
How does the teacher's action "right the situation?" Only by ignoring the students.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
There is no requirement to sacrifice my family for this school when the school doesn't care about my family. In industry, it's not at all unusual to take a job until a better one comes along.
I am sure the machines of industry will get over their hurt feelings or the sense that you don't give a damn about them.
Children are not machines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
FTR, how long did you work for schools that paid less than the minimum for a teacher of your qualifications that had lousy and very expensive medical benefits and no retirement plan?
More years than not.
Sometimes the kids who need teaching need it even though they are in places that pay poorly and/or are managed poorly.
Then again, my spouse married me while I was in one of those schools and has not exactly been shocked at my ongoing career choices.
The first wrong is done by the school to students and teachers.
The second wrong is done by the teacher to the students and the school.
How does the teacher's action "right the situation?" Only by ignoring the students.
I am sure the machines of industry will get over their hurt feelings or the sense that you don't give a damn about them.
Children are not machines.
More years than not.
Sometimes the kids who need teaching need it even though they are in places that pay poorly and/or are managed poorly.
Then again, my spouse married me while I was in one of those schools and has not exactly been shocked at my ongoing career choices.
No, children are not machines but teachers are not permanent fixtures in their lives. Teachers come and go, if not during a year, year over year and kids survive.
I disagree the teacher wrongs the students. The teacher didn't make a committment beyond her contract to anyone so she wrongs no one by leaving. They may not like it but they can take that up with those who determine the teacher's pay since there is an easy fix for this problem.
The students will not be ignored. The school will replace the teacher with another teacher willing, for whatever time, to work for low pay for whatever reasons they're willing to work for it. If the students would not be taught, you'd have a semi argument (you still couldn't argue that it falls to one particular person to stay in spite of low wages). The student still gets taught so it's transparent them. Three weeks after the new teacher comes in, they're back to normal mode.
Yes, kids in poor areas and areas that pay poorly do need teaching and there are teachers who can afford to take those jobs who do. There are other teachers who only take them for as long as they have to because they can't afford them. For example, there are a handfull of long term teachers at our school. All of their husbands earn six figure salaries. What they earn doesn't matter. Those whose incomes matter to their families, come and go. The school gets a cheap teacher for however long they're there and they get some experience but as soon as they can they move on.
The teacher's action rights the situation in two ways. In refusing to continue to accept an unfair wage situation she sends a message loud and clear to the administration regarding her reasons for leaving and she does right by her family. My first obligation is to my own children because I did make a committment to do best by them. My committment to the school is only to teach until such a time as it is no longer mutually agreeable that I do so. Students just get who they get for teachers.
While I don't like it when change happens to my kids because change is hard, change is part of life and every person has the right to the best life they can get for themselves. No one should be guilted in accepting less than they and their family deserve in the manner you and others try to do. The bottom line is teaching is a job. Part of a job is the pay and benefits package. If that is inadequate, it's reasonable that a teacher would look for other work and take it when it comes along.
That people children become attached to are transient in children's lives is a fact of life. Most kids in public schools will have over 40 teachers in thier school careers because teachers are not permanent and the less you pay them, the less permanent they are. Imagine that.
One of the reasons I want to make a job change is I want to be somewhere where I can make a long term, personal, committment. I like to grow roots. I can't do that where I am. I'm not as effective as I could be because of that. The issue that must be resolved to be in that position is wages. So, yeah, when someone offers me a livable wage, I'm gone. It will be hard but all parties will get over it in short order. I assure you that none of the teachers, administrators or students even think about the four teachers who left after the school year stared last year. No one expects teachers to be permanent. If they are happy where they are, they hope they'll stay but none are permanent.
Too bad the school doesn't let teachers say good bye to the students. They feel it's best if you just disappear on your last day, then they badmouth you for leaving to the students so they'll accept your replacement more readily. Somehow, I think explaining why you're leaving and saying good bye would be better but they do this more than I do.
I'm sick of not being able to provide my family with what they deserve. I'm amazed that anyone would actually think I have an obligation to short change my family because I happen to be a teacher. That's just wrong.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-02-2009 at 01:38 PM..
Many might argue it is a matter of what the contract says. If the contract allows it perhaps it is then a matter of conscience and if the contract would be broken then it becomes ethics.
Is not a contract a document used to establish the boundaries and terms of employment? Would not operating within the rules established be ethical? Would operating outside the boundaries be perhaps something else?
1. a code of behaviour, esp. of a particular group, profession, or individual: business ethics
Yes, a contract does set boundaries. Technically, you do no wrong if you adhere to your contract. Mine doesn't even require me to give two weeks notice. They woudln't give me notice if they fired me either. Still there's that feeling of leaving someone in a lurch but, then again, teachers are pretty easy to come by these days. They'd replace me within days and never miss a beat.
I have never left, but if the school year hasn't started yet usually you can leave and there is no big fuss. Teachers work good when they are where they want to be and most principals understand that. Technically here in Texas we have a grace period to leave the contract. It think it's like 60 days and we sign the contract renewal in April. There are many teachers that leave July and August after the grace period.
Accepting a job after the school year has started would be really unusual, but I don't think it's an ethics thing.
Personally I would do what makes you happy. There are many teachers out there and they will fill the position. I got my first job because a teacher had a nervous breakdown and left in November.
I'd have to be pretty certain I didn't ever intend to work in education again, if I were considering leaving midyear for anything other than health-related reasons.
I think it's ethical if the school has reduced your pay, cut your benefits, makes other changes, is refusing to address some important issue, or otherwise is doing something that puts them in the wrong, or, alternatively, maybe the teacher has had some major change of circumstances (a suddenly unemployed spouse, etc.) that changes the picture. Otherwise, yes, while legally one could leave, I don't think it's the right thing to do. You know going into it what the terms of the deal are, and I think it's the right thing (in the case where the school is upholding their side of the bargain) to wait until the school year is done before moving on. The kids will "get over it," but it's still better for them to have some consistency. Teachers don't have to be martyrs and do have the legal and ethical right to make sure that they're taking care of themselves and their families, but in that case it seems better to not take a last-choice job if it's so bad that you expect to jump ship as soon as the opportunity arises. I don't know the ins and outs of how administrators look at this, but if a school were willing to hire away another teacher after the school year had started I would think it would raise red flags about the workings of the new school, too.
I know that the OP works in a charter school, and it appears doesn't receive decent benefits or retirement accounts? That's one of my concerns about charters, actually; I don't know enough about them to have a fully informed opinion, but the fact that they are run more along the lines of private businesses has both its pros and cons. One of those potential negatives seems to be that along with the independence in hiring teachers also comes the loss of some of the perks that help stabilize the more traditional union teaching jobs. I think teachers, schools, and, of course, kids, all benefit with continuity; one teacher for the entire year, and ideally many of the same teachers at the same school for many years.
While in general I think it's unethical for a teacher to leave in the middle of the year, at least assuming no special circumstances, I think that a school with many teachers making a similar choice needs to take a hard look at the turnover rate. Schools have an ethical obligation to their students to work hard to keep good teachers around. Most businesses want to retain their employees, but that's especially important in the field of education.
I think the statement that students and staff don't think about teachers who have left is wrong, too. Kids definitely notice when a teacher is gone, even if they weren't particularly bonded to that teacher. I had a 7th grade teacher disappear one time; nothing was ever said about where he went, one day we showed up in class and we was simply gone. I remember that even now. While it didn't have any longterm negative impact, it did project a feeling of school instability, and was in sharp contrast to my elementary and my high schools, where teachers had been there for years, and most of the teachers who left did so because of retirement. I think for kids from unstable backgrounds this is probably even more important; if you have a shifting situation at home then it's all the more comforting (and important from an educational standpoint, too) to have stability at least somewhere in life. Teachers obviously aren't obligated to stay in one school forever, but given the nature of the profession they should be at least aware that their actions have potentially more social impact than it would if they were working in many other fields.
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