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In one case you're arguing for what worked, and let's face facts, US education worked through the 80s (regardless of A Nation at Risk), but then you talk about homework as though its a bad thing. It worked before, why not still?
As a teacher, the main backup I'd like from parents is some discipline instilled in their kids before they reach the classroom. Basic respect would go a long way towards me not being cursed at or kids hitting one another. I know kids didn't always value education, but their parents did, and by constantly being on their case, backing up the teacher when it came to discipline and respect, the kids came to obtain an education, oftentimes without realizing it.
I love my job, but there are days when my kids drive me nuts.
Because, as so very many teachers point out, parents aren't seeing to it that kids get it done, for one reason or another. It's not only the neglectful parents either. There are plenty of parents who over-schedule after school activities that they leave little time for kids to do homework. When it isn't the parents, it's the teachers. A lot of teachers expect a lot of work to be done outside class. Add two or three teachers with a ton of homework and you get a kid so burdened down they give up.
I agree that respect should start at home, HOWEVER, even disrespectful kids will be respectful to someone who demands it. A teacher can't afford to sit with their lower lip stuck out while the classroom is in chaos as they blame the parent for not making sure Junior behaves in school. The dicipline has to come from school and parents have to allow it, but it's the teachers who have to know how to control a classroom.
I agree that respect should start at home, HOWEVER, even disrespectful kids will be respectful to someone who demands it. A teacher can't afford to sit with their lower lip stuck out while the classroom is in chaos as they blame the parent for not making sure Junior behaves in school. The dicipline has to come from school and parents have to allow it, but it's the teachers who have to know how to control a classroom.
Agreed that its a cooperative thing. We're in agreement on this. The question becomes what about children of permissive parents who don't care their kid is on a cell-phone, don't believe their child cursed out the teacher, and who think it is their child's right to disregard dress-code and other policies? What do you do with these children and their parents who are the root cause?
Oh, by the way, I've got control over my classes, well 4 out of 5, and am used an example to my colleagues, but even I have problems with a certain class because I have 27 kids, with 24who curse, scream, yell, fight, or try to text, while the other 3 want them to shut up and let me teach or get on with the activity.
Agreed that its a cooperative thing. We're in agreement on this. The question becomes what about children of permissive parents who don't care their kid is on a cell-phone, don't believe their child cursed out the teacher, and who think it is their child's right to disregard dress-code and other policies? What do you do with these children and their parents who are the root cause?
Oh, by the way, I've got control over my classes, well 4 out of 5, and am used an example to my colleagues, but even I have problems with a certain class because I have 27 kids, with 24who curse, scream, yell, fight, or try to text, while the other 3 want them to shut up and let me teach or get on with the activity.
Exactly. In so many cases, it's simply not as simple as "demanding" respect and compliance. There are kids who will laugh at you for "demanding" respect. If there is not any support from home, no amount of "demanding" respect is sufficient in extreme cases. And, in many schools, there are a lot of such extreme cases.But, without any experience working as a teacher in a school like this, you wouldn't really know what it's like. A LOT of things in this world seem simple and easy from afar.
In one case you're arguing for what worked, and let's face facts, US education worked through the 80s (regardless of A Nation at Risk), but then you talk about homework as though its a bad thing. It worked before, why not still?
As a teacher, the main backup I'd like from parents is some discipline instilled in their kids before they reach the classroom. Basic respect would go a long way towards me not being cursed at or kids hitting one another. I know kids didn't always value education, but their parents did, and by constantly being on their case, backing up the teacher when it came to discipline and respect, the kids came to obtain an education, oftentimes without realizing it.
I love my job, but there are days when my kids drive me nuts.
I need a thumbs up with a frownie face not a smiley (because I agree but it's sad) but this will have to do. VERY well said. Many of my students lack self discipline and have no respect for anyone. What a difference it makes when they have self discipline and respect their teachers. In my grade book, there's a direct correlation between the two and grades.
The main difference I see between education when I was a kid and now is I wouldn't have dared NOT do what a teacher told me to and I would have been backhanded into tomorrow if I talked to my teachers the way some of my students talk to me. Then mom justifies it by saying I got him mad or I just can't handle assertive black females. What happened to basic respect of people in authority?
It is the lack of resepct for teachers I struggle with the most. I come from the professional world and you do not talk to subordinates the way some of my students will talk to me.
I feel that I, as a parent, am to "blame" or credit for my childs education. I homeschooled my dd from the middle of K through 4th grade. She is now back to public school for 5th grade. I know that I can bring her back home if I need to. I wish there could be more teamwork between the teacher and the parent. I would like to see a syllabus for all of my dds classes at the beginning of the year. I would like to see parents involved with curriculum selections. I also feel that a free public education is a privilege. If little Johny doesn't know how to behave he needs to go to a special class so he can not stop the other kids from learning. If he can learn to behave then bring him back. If not he needs to stay in a special class, still being given a chance to learn.
As a parent if my dd is in the 5th grade and reading at a second grade level I would question her teachers but I the parent should have known this a long time ago and be working with her at home. What is a teacher or a student to do when they have little Johny in class with his special IEP. My dd has to sit with a child like this. He whispers to his self a lot, draws on her papers, kicks her under the desk because he can't sit still, has an aide that comes and sits with him sometimes, so my dd is trying to hear the teacher over the aide and the other child. So it is a lot for a teacher to deal with. I do have to reteach a lot of things in the evenings.
I also think that this is 2010, why do the school use so much paper? So much more could be done via the computer to save $$$. We could be using on line text book, work books and all of the other 15 pages my dd has sent home everyweek could just be posted of the school web site. I would love to send my dd to school for a 1/2 day to get instruction from her teacher, then let her come home to complete the work on line.
Answering on the paper. Because not all students have access to comptuers. I did one assignment this year that had to be turned in online. I had to give my students class time to work on it and make sure computers were available for them to turn in their projects. Half of my students don't have access to a computer at home and it's way too inconvenient for them to go to the library .
Agreed that its a cooperative thing. We're in agreement on this. The question becomes what about children of permissive parents who don't care their kid is on a cell-phone, don't believe their child cursed out the teacher, and who think it is their child's right to disregard dress-code and other policies? What do you do with these children and their parents who are the root cause?
Oh, by the way, I've got control over my classes, well 4 out of 5, and am used an example to my colleagues, but even I have problems with a certain class because I have 27 kids, with 24who curse, scream, yell, fight, or try to text, while the other 3 want them to shut up and let me teach or get on with the activity.
I'd rep you again but I can't. I have to spread the love around. I have one student I've sent to the office for cursing several times and his mother insists I must have heard him wrong because he gets mad when wrongly accused. He puts on a great act for mom and she's buying it hook line and sinker. I have kids who don't turn in their homework and mom calls to yell at me because she SAW him working on it at home and why would he work on it and NOT turn it in. Her conclusion -- I lost it.
I have control over 4 out of 6 of my classes. Two just have that critical mass of distrespectful students who would rather do anything than their work. No amount of demanding respect will work there. They don't care. Not surprisingly, the average grades in those classes are lower than my other classes.
I feel for the kids in those classes who want to learn. They are being cheated.
While I don't agree with the extreme view of NOEXCUSES, I've come to the conclusion that many if not most districts seem to be using education practices developed in the 1800's and not changed much since then.
However, I am dismayed to see that to a large extent the extent of using these practices is rather isolated when looked across the board.
I am also somewhat dismayed at the lack of required teacher preparation and the lack of inservicing of teachers by their employers. I had assumed that most states were like the extensive teaching credentialing requirements of Pennsylvania. Once again, having 3/4 of my entire 40 year career in a very focused forward looking district, I tended to believe that every district or county was providing inservicing to keep its educators focused on the very best of research on effective methods of teaching children.
I am not seeing that here to the extent that I expected. And I am beginning to understand why politicians and others in the general public keep talking about removing "bad" teachers.
Unfortunately, they should be talking about removing bad districts, since most teachers won't know the best methods unless they get the training, and the training is not generally available at the university level since the Ivory Tower Education Structure is generally about 15-20 years behind the research times. The training comes from the districts bringing it in.
Zarathu
I just can't resist this one. All someone has to do at my high school is bring up the subject of "brain research" at a faculty meeting and everyone groans, rolls their eyes, and laughs out loud.
We simply do NOT have enough knowledge of exactly how the brain functions (and the brains of individuals differ so much from one another) to make any claim that brain research is going to cure public education's ills.
What are we talking about here? The "Jigsaw method" or "K-2 whatever"? This is just rinky-dink, half-baked, Romper Room game time stuff. I call them "Spit Wad Creators" because most surly adolescent slackers are smart enough to recognize their inanity immediately and will respond to these "research based" methods in the only appropriate fashion available to them. They stopped watching Mr. Roger's Neighborhood when they turned ten.
Besides, have you taken a close look at what passes as scientific research in the field of education? Most of it is anecdotal in nature with a long list of uncontrolled variables. - e.g. "On 7th Street the majority of the women who give birth also sing soprano therefore singing soprano causes pregnancy."
Too may schools are locked into methods used during the 1800s?? Really? Have you read the correspondence of common educated people during that century? Their literacy skills far surpass our own. I want to find some of these "backward" schools that use 19th century methods. That's where I want to teach.
I just can't resist this one. All someone has to do at my high school is bring up the subject of "brain research" at a faculty meeting and everyone groans, rolls their eyes, and laughs out loud.
We simply do NOT have enough knowledge of exactly how the brain functions (and the brains of individuals differ so much from one another) to make any claim that brain research is going to cure public education's ills.
What are we talking about here? The "Jigsaw method" or "K-2 whatever"? This is just rinky-dink, half-baked, Romper Room game time stuff. I call them "Spit Wad Creators" because most surly adolescent slackers are smart enough to recognize their inanity immediately and will respond to these "research based" methods in the only appropriate fashion available to them. They stopped watching Mr. Roger's Neighborhood when they turned ten.
Besides, have you taken a close look at what passes as scientific research in the field of education? Most of it is anecdotal in nature with a long list of uncontrolled variables. - e.g. "On 7th Street the majority of the women who give birth also sing soprano therefore singing soprano causes pregnancy."
Too may schools are locked into methods used during the 1800s?? Really? Have you read the correspondence of common educated people during that century? Their literacy skills far surpass our own. I want to find some of these "backward" schools that use 19th century methods. That's where I want to teach.
I just can't resist this one. All someone has to do at my high school is bring up the subject of "brain research" at a faculty meeting and everyone groans, rolls their eyes, and laughs out loud.
We simply do NOT have enough knowledge of exactly how the brain functions (and the brains of individuals differ so much from one another) to make any claim that brain research is going to cure public education's ills.
What are we talking about here? The "Jigsaw method" or "K-2 whatever"? This is just rinky-dink, half-baked, Romper Room game time stuff. I call them "Spit Wad Creators" because most surly adolescent slackers are smart enough to recognize their inanity immediately and will respond to these "research based" methods in the only appropriate fashion available to them. They stopped watching Mr. Roger's Neighborhood when they turned ten.
Besides, have you taken a close look at what passes as scientific research in the field of education? Most of it is anecdotal in nature with a long list of uncontrolled variables. - e.g. "On 7th Street the majority of the women who give birth also sing soprano therefore singing soprano causes pregnancy."
Too may schools are locked into methods used during the 1800s?? Really? Have you read the correspondence of common educated people during that century? Their literacy skills far surpass our own. I want to find some of these "backward" schools that use 19th century methods. That's where I want to teach.
I just can't resist this one. All someone has to do at my high school is bring up the subject of "brain research" at a faculty meeting and everyone groans, rolls their eyes, and laughs out loud.
We simply do NOT have enough knowledge of exactly how the brain functions (and the brains of individuals differ so much from one another) to make any claim that brain research is going to cure public education's ills.
What are we talking about here? The "Jigsaw method" or "K-2 whatever"? This is just rinky-dink, half-baked, Romper Room game time stuff. I call them "Spit Wad Creators" because most surly adolescent slackers are smart enough to recognize their inanity immediately and will respond to these "research based" methods in the only appropriate fashion available to them. They stopped watching Mr. Roger's Neighborhood when they turned ten.
Besides, have you taken a close look at what passes as scientific research in the field of education? Most of it is anecdotal in nature with a long list of uncontrolled variables. - e.g. "On 7th Street the majority of the women who give birth also sing soprano therefore singing soprano causes pregnancy."
Too may schools are locked into methods used during the 1800s?? Really? Have you read the correspondence of common educated people during that century? Their literacy skills far surpass our own. I want to find some of these "backward" schools that use 19th century methods. That's where I want to teach.
Everytime someone makes a comment about us still teaching the way we did 100 years ago, I find myself wondering what has changed about people in the last 100 years that would necessitate us changing how we teach. While what we need to learn has changed, our physiology has not. What worked in the past should work now. Before we can figure out how to change education, don't we need to identify what is different about people today that the methods need to change?
I do believe change is coming. I think we're headed towards self paced cyber schools. I'm just wondering whether that will speed up or slow down the education process. Sometimes the only reason my students learn anything is there is a test on Friday. I can't imagine the procrastination if they got to choose when the test was.
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A lot of teachers expect a lot of work to be done outside class. Add two or three teachers with a ton of homework and you get a kid so burdened down they give up.
I need a thumbs up with a frownie face not a smiley (because I agree but it's sad) but this will have to do. VERY well said. Many of my students lack self discipline and have no respect for anyone. What a difference it makes when they have self discipline and respect their teachers. In my grade book, there's a direct correlation between the two and grades. 
What happened to basic respect of people in authority? 
Brain Research? OH please.
Sometimes the only reason my students learn anything is there is a test on Friday. I can't imagine the procrastination if they got to choose when the test was. 
