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Everytime someone makes a comment about us still teaching the way we did 100 years ago, I find myself wondering what has changed about people in the last 100 years that would necessitate us changing how we teach. While what we need to learn has changed, our physiology has not. What worked in the past should work now. Before we can figure out how to change education, don't we need to identify what is different about people today that the methods need to change?
Except a hundred years ago not everyone got an education. Education used to be the realm of the very wealthy or the very motivated. Now everyone needs to be taught including those who are not particularly well suited to the traditional auditory/lecture methods.
Education needs to change because we are no longer educating the same population of people.
Except a hundred years ago not everyone got an education. Education used to be the realm of the very wealthy or the very motivated. Now everyone needs to be taught including those who are not particularly well suited to the traditional auditory/lecture methods.
Education needs to change because we are no longer educating the same population of people.
Either that or they need to join those who are motivated to learn. Either education is of value or it isn't. If it's not worth effort on your part, it's not of value to you and there's not much I can do to make you learn. I'm not so sure that education needs to change. I think the way society views education needs to change. The difference between us an Asian countries who succeed at teaching their children isn't how they teach. It's the students and how they view education. We keep making education everyone's job EXCEPT the student when the student is the one persons whose job it really is.
It's very hard to make someone learn who doesn't want to. It's kind of like pushing a rope. A lot of effort for little gain. I can't make them learn. I can only open the door. They have to decide to walk through or not. The real difference between my daughters and my students isn't their teachers. It's their attitude towards education.
Seriously, I think we need to bring vocab schools back. I think we need to quit trying to shove all students into the same sized hole. Back in the 1950's there was a track for students who didn't want to go to college or who even didn't want to graduate from high school. Are we really accomplishing anything by trying to force all students onto a college bound track?
It's very hard to make someone learn who doesn't want to. It's kind of like pushing a rope. A lot of effort for little gain. I can't make them learn. I can only open the door. They have to decide to walk through or not. The real difference between my daughters and my students isn't their teachers. It's their attitude towards education.
Ou district practices the Working on the Work philosophy of Dr. Phil Schlechty. You can Google it to find out more. Basically, we believe students are volunteers...that their level of engagement is directly related to the type of work we ask them to do.
We've been at this for many years, so we've been able to address our difficulties, like unmotivated and unruly students. In the end, it all goes back to the type and quality of work I ask of students. It includes ownership, personal choice, relevance, safety, etc. I've taken students from rebellion to engagement. But again, my district supports professional development and was the catalyst to get us teachers working with Dr. Schlechty.
Ou district practices the Working on the Work philosophy of Dr. Phil Schlechty. You can Google it to find out more. Basically, we believe students are volunteers...that their level of engagement is directly related to the type of work we ask them to do.
We've been at this for many years, so we've been able to address our difficulties, like unmotivated and unruly students. In the end, it all goes back to the type and quality of work I ask of students. It includes ownership, personal choice, relevance, safety, etc. I've taken students from rebellion to engagement. But again, my district supports professional development and was the catalyst to get us teachers working with Dr. Schlechty.
Thanks. Hopefully, there's something I can put on my summer reading list here.
Our school is looking for ways to motivate students. Maybe they'd be willing to do some training. We, actually, do a lot of training. It just doesn't seem to be relevent to what we're dealing with in the classroom. Lack of engagement is a serious issue.
..As a teacher, the main backup I'd like from parents is some discipline instilled in their kids before they reach the classroom. Basic respect would go a long way towards me not being cursed at or kids hitting one another. I know kids didn't always value education, but their parents did, and by constantly being on their case, backing up the teacher when it came to discipline and respect, the kids came to obtain an education, oftentimes without realizing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
The government responds to what the people want. They don't stay in office if they don't. Ask any parent out there if they will accept their child being the one left behind? The idea that all children can succeed comes from parents not the government. The government just acts in response to the people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
If the parents care about education and hold their kids accountable, they will do quite well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkosiek
Agreed that its a cooperative thing. We're in agreement on this. The question becomes what about children of permissive parents who don't care their kid is on a cell-phone, don't believe their child cursed out the teacher, and who think it is their child's right to disregard dress-code and other policies? What do you do with these children and their parents who are the root cause?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I need a thumbs up with a frownie face not a smiley (because I agree but it's sad) but this will have to do. VERY well said. Many of my students lack self discipline and have no respect for anyone. What a difference it makes when they have self discipline and respect their teachers. In my grade book, there's a direct correlation between the two and grades.
The common thread here is what has been happening for years now, and it's the fault of the parents, teachers and school administrations, and society in general.
It's the feel good philosophy that has transformed this country into a collection of problems.
Kids are the result of parenting and teaching. When they are taught from birth that they are so very special that they can do no wrong, pacified and coddled or totally neglected, either does the same thing, they grow into teens who decide that the world owes them whatever they want. It's not their fault, it's the way they are taught. Teachers get involved and, instead of demanding from K on that they are respectful in school, they are treated like royalty by the system twisting itself to accommodate them at every turn and on top of that, micromanaging every minute of the day. They are talked to until they no longer hear about fuzzies, and no touching, and be nice to everybody with so much psychobabble it's ridiculous.
At home it's hands off and too much talking AT them. At school it's hands off and too much talking AT them. Kids grow up calling adults by their first names, including teachers. It isn't the parents who insist they call the teachers by their first names. They believe they are on equal ground with adults.
Every little breakdown causes a bigger breakdown. When kids sense that they are in charge, they have no idea where the limits are.
I understand now what some of you are saying about parents being responsible (although not in the ways it has been expressed here), but I also better understand where teachers and administrators are letting them down by grooming them from K on that the respect is not demanded. Teachers are not the students' friends. They should NEVER put students on equal ground as themselves. Kids haven't earned that priviledge with any adult.
Politics take over, political correctness takes over, everybody thinks they are doing right but nobody is, so they blame everybody else for everything.
There are so many other reasons that education is failing our young, and modern parenting is not helping, but the crux is that it has broken down little by little over time.
Last edited by NoExcuses; 05-17-2010 at 09:45 PM..
The common thread here is what has been happening for years now, and it's the fault of the parents, teachers and school administrations, and society in general.
It's the feel good philosophy that has transformed this country into a collection of problems.
Kids are the result of parenting and teaching. When they are taught from birth that they are so very special that they can do no wrong, pacified and coddled or totally neglected, either does the same thing, they grow into teens who decide that the world owes them whatever they want. It's not their fault, it's the way they are taught. Teachers get involved and, instead of demanding from K on that they are respectful in school, they are treated like royalty by the system twisting itself to accommodate them at every turn and on top of that, micromanaging every minute of the day. They are talked to until they no longer hear about fuzzies, and no touching, and be nice to everybody with so much psychobabble it's ridiculous.
At home it's hands off and too much talking AT them. At school it's hands off and too much talking AT them. Kids grow up calling adults by their first names, including teachers. It isn't the parents who insist they call the teachers by their first names. They believe they are on equal ground with adults.
Every little breakdown causes a bigger breakdown. When kids sense that they are in charge, they have no idea where the limits are.
I understand now what some of you are saying about parents being responsible (although not in the ways it has been expressed here), but I also better understand where teachers and administrators are letting them down by grooming them from K on that the respect is not demanded. Teachers are not the students' friends. They should NEVER put students on equal ground as themselves. Kids haven't earned that priviledge with any adult.
Politics take over, political correctness takes over, everybody thinks they are doing right but nobody is, so they blame everybody else for everything.
There are so many other reasons that education is failing our young, and modern parenting is not helping, but the crux is that it has broken down little by little over time.
The power to effect the fastest change lies with parents. What made education work better when I was a kid is that my parents would have killed me if I didn't show respect for my teachers or didn't live up to my responsiblities as student. Teachers were there to educate me and it was a privlidge to live in a country where I got an education. Today, kids think everything is owed to them. When you look at things that way, you will always see the deficiencies.
If I put my glass out and you give me 3/4 a glass of milk and I feel grateful to have that, I appreaciate what you did for me. When I put my glass out expecting a full glass because that's what I deserve, and you give me the same 3/4 of a glass, I'm angry at you and the system for cheating me.
I have students who do not do their homework or study who fail tests and then they and their parents tell me I failed them. They admit they don't study yet it's my fault they fail. I didn't teach it right. You are spot on about being raised as mommy's special snowflake. Kids walk into class expecting to get exactly what they need not ready to adapt to the system (some adaption is necessary in any group system). Schools respond to this by trying to adapt where they can but that glass is only 3/4 full and that's not what Johnny and his mother have come to believe they deserve.
No one is saying it's the parents job to educate the child. It is, however, the parents job to prepare the child for education. If you want your glass of milk catered to you, then homeschool. If you want to use the public system, you need to teach your children to be responsible by holding them accountable and teach them to respect those who are there to educate them for their benefit.
I can say that most of my students are not disrespectful but enough are that it is a, daily, issue. They walk into class with the idea they can do what they want and me telling them otherwise is disrespect to them. I had a student sleeping in class yesterday. I woke him up multiple times. He, finally, got mad and started yelling about him not hurting anything by sleeping in class. (His mom says I disrespect him. Near as I can figure, asking him to do anything he doesn't care to at the moment is disrespect but then she complains about his grades....) How can you teach someone who sleeps in class? The truth of the matter is, my class would be easier to manage if this student slept through it every day. However, he's not going to learn anything that way.
As a teacher, I spend way too much time on discipline issues that didn't exist when I was a kid. You didn't talk back to a teacher twice when I was young. You didn't disobey the rules and you did what was expected of you or YOU paid the consequences and mommy wasn't coming to the school to bail you out. In fact, you probably got it at home too.
People believe what they want to believe, hear what they want to hear, see what they want to see. People don't want their viewpoints confused with facts that counteract that viewpoint.
After awhile, those people who have done it, know how to do it, have researched it, and who are up on the current research, stop trying to provide the facts to those who only see, hear, and believe what they want to believe..... and they just leave.
And it doesn't change. But the people who see, hear, and believe what they want to believe are no long provided with any cognitive dissonance to distrupt their outdated or just plain wrong belief structures.
Works for everybody, but noting changes.
95% of people come to forums to with little knowledge about the subject of the forum but lots of agendas about how things work in their minds. And they need validation of that reality.
Is any reality a real reality? One just begins to wonder.
Then there are those who think they have all the answers. Of course none of those answers come with any sense, and they especially don't come with any responsibility on their part. It's cut and dried that it's someone else who is to blame for everything and all the misconceptions.
Those people live in their own little world and with them, nothing changes because they are unwilling to take part in the change for their part of the problem.
Is any reality a real reality? One just begins to wonder.
Z
No. I don't really think there is a "real" reality. The problem as I have personally seen it, is that 1/2 the story is often taken as the full story, and therefore, anything else is merely an "agenda." Most parents now work full-time, and although they absolutely should be more involved, I'm seeing that many parents are finding that fiscal reality requires them to be more involved in paying the bills.
They elect people to school boards with what I feel is a reasonable expectation that those elected will do what they are sent to do in the best interests of children. Unfortunately, personal opinions stain much of the hopes that true common ground can be found.
Also, IMHO, we have a handful of however "well-intentioned" people (read Foundations) who are throwing vast amounts of grant money at a problem which they have for all intents and purposes no personal experience with. We parents are told that we should be grateful, because after all, look how much they are giving us.
To add further fuel to the fire, these well-intentioned "Dudly Do-Rights" smile, nod, and disregard anything that people who have experience or parents who are trying to make rational suggestions have to say.
Then these "everyone can achieve - pie in the sky" people do just exactly what they please because they have the financial backing to do so. No school district is going to refuse vast infusions of cash into their system - particularly when this country is in the financial position it now is in.
Also, finding out that programs are being cut on facebook vs. the paper sent by the governing board with information that shows our tax burden is "reduced" without even the slightest hint of what is actually being cut is infuriating parents to the point where they are more likely to attend a meeting and rant, than to actually calm down and see what the "unwritten" agenda is.
Unfortunately, when parents see the "finished product" they are often blamed for not making the meeting regardless of the fact that we live in a 24/7 world and they probably couldn't get time off to get to the meeting if they tried.
The common thread here is what has been happening for years now, and it's the fault of the parents, teachers and school administrations, and society in general.
It's the feel good philosophy that has transformed this country into a collection of problems.
Kids are the result of parenting and teaching. When they are taught from birth that they are so very special that they can do no wrong, pacified and coddled or totally neglected, either does the same thing, they grow into teens who decide that the world owes them whatever they want. It's not their fault, it's the way they are taught. Teachers get involved and, instead of demanding from K on that they are respectful in school, they are treated like royalty by the system twisting itself to accommodate them at every turn and on top of that, micromanaging every minute of the day. They are talked to until they no longer hear about fuzzies, and no touching, and be nice to everybody with so much psychobabble it's ridiculous.
At home it's hands off and too much talking AT them. At school it's hands off and too much talking AT them. Kids grow up calling adults by their first names, including teachers. It isn't the parents who insist they call the teachers by their first names. They believe they are on equal ground with adults.
Every little breakdown causes a bigger breakdown. When kids sense that they are in charge, they have no idea where the limits are.
I understand now what some of you are saying about parents being responsible (although not in the ways it has been expressed here), but I also better understand where teachers and administrators are letting them down by grooming them from K on that the respect is not demanded. Teachers are not the students' friends. They should NEVER put students on equal ground as themselves. Kids haven't earned that priviledge with any adult.
Politics take over, political correctness takes over, everybody thinks they are doing right but nobody is, so they blame everybody else for everything.
There are so many other reasons that education is failing our young, and modern parenting is not helping, but the crux is that it has broken down little by little over time.
I had to read this three times before I was convinced you weren't quoting somebody else you intended to disagree with. In short, I agree on all levels You are exactly right in what you say here. My thoughts exactly!
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They admit they don't study yet it's my fault they fail. 
I didn't teach it right. You are spot on about being raised as mommy's special snowflake. Kids walk into class expecting to get exactly what they need not ready to adapt to the system (some adaption is necessary in any group system). Schools respond to this by trying to adapt where they can but that glass is only 3/4 full and that's not what Johnny and his mother have come to believe they deserve.
