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Old 05-18-2010, 11:31 AM
 
1,890 posts, read 3,127,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reloop View Post
No. I don't really think there is a "real" reality. The problem as I have personally seen it, is that 1/2 the story is often taken as the full story, and therefore, anything else is merely an "agenda." Most parents now work full-time, and although they absolutely should be more involved, I'm seeing that many parents are finding that fiscal reality requires them to be more involved in paying the bills.

They elect people to school boards with what I feel is a reasonable expectation that those elected will do what they are sent to do in the best interests of children. Unfortunately, personal opinions stain much of the hopes that true common ground can be found.

Also, IMHO, we have a handful of however "well-intentioned" people (read Foundations) who are throwing vast amounts of grant money at a problem which they have for all intents and purposes no personal experience with. We parents are told that we should be grateful, because after all, look how much they are giving us.


To add further fuel to the fire, these well-intentioned "Dudly Do-Rights" smile, nod, and disregard anything that people who have experience or parents who are trying to make rational suggestions have to say.

Then these "everyone can achieve - pie in the sky" people do just exactly what they please because they have the financial backing to do so. No school district is going to refuse vast infusions of cash into their system - particularly when this country is in the financial position it now is in.

Also, finding out that programs are being cut on facebook vs. the paper sent by the governing board with information that shows our tax burden is "reduced" without even the slightest hint of what is actually being cut is infuriating parents to the point where they are more likely to attend a meeting and rant, than to actually calm down and see what the "unwritten" agenda is.

Unfortunately, when parents see the "finished product" they are often blamed for not making the meeting regardless of the fact that we live in a 24/7 world and they probably couldn't get time off to get to the meeting if they tried.

Reality? I think not.
If you could be a little more specific that would help. I tend to think I agree with what you're trying to get at. It's just a little lacking as far as real examples of what you're referring to at times.

Long story short: If you as a parent can ensure me that your child is willing to follow my reasonable rules and cooperate with me, I can promise you your child will learn all they are expected to know and more. I bristle at some of what's said here because I've had far to many cases where kids saw school as a big joke and following rules as a joke. Then they'd go home and tell their parents a lot of bologna about what happened at school. The parents just believed them sight unseen and decided their assumptions of most teachers being bad teachers was right. And thus the parents almost become advocates for their kids' (defiant, disrespectful) behavior. In matters where there are differing statements of what happens with a student at school, these parents don't support the teachers, they support their kids..even when they haven't been to the school to observe the teacher teach. That's very damaging to schools and teachers. A common comment I've heard said both to me and other teachers from these parents is "Get control of your classroom". It's as if these parents think teachers have the same recourse they as parents have in disciplining kids. We don't. We can't take away TV time at home for misbehavior. We can't offer a trip to Dinsey if they do well. We can't take away their cell phones. If they get really out of line, we can't spank or scold them. Parents can do all of that. We can't. That's why both parents and teachers need to work together. It can't be two separate entities merely opertating at different times of the day.
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Old 05-18-2010, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,618,189 times
Reputation: 14694
Quote:
Originally Posted by reloop View Post
No. I don't really think there is a "real" reality. The problem as I have personally seen it, is that 1/2 the story is often taken as the full story, and therefore, anything else is merely an "agenda." Most parents now work full-time, and although they absolutely should be more involved, I'm seeing that many parents are finding that fiscal reality requires them to be more involved in paying the bills.

They elect people to school boards with what I feel is a reasonable expectation that those elected will do what they are sent to do in the best interests of children. Unfortunately, personal opinions stain much of the hopes that true common ground can be found.

Also, IMHO, we have a handful of however "well-intentioned" people (read Foundations) who are throwing vast amounts of grant money at a problem which they have for all intents and purposes no personal experience with. We parents are told that we should be grateful, because after all, look how much they are giving us.


To add further fuel to the fire, these well-intentioned "Dudly Do-Rights" smile, nod, and disregard anything that people who have experience or parents who are trying to make rational suggestions have to say.

Then these "everyone can achieve - pie in the sky" people do just exactly what they please because they have the financial backing to do so. No school district is going to refuse vast infusions of cash into their system - particularly when this country is in the financial position it now is in.

Also, finding out that programs are being cut on facebook vs. the paper sent by the governing board with information that shows our tax burden is "reduced" without even the slightest hint of what is actually being cut is infuriating parents to the point where they are more likely to attend a meeting and rant, than to actually calm down and see what the "unwritten" agenda is.

Unfortunately, when parents see the "finished product" they are often blamed for not making the meeting regardless of the fact that we live in a 24/7 world and they probably couldn't get time off to get to the meeting if they tried.

Reality? I think not.
Working parents are not the issue unless you're making the child's homework the parent's responsibility. You don't have to stay home to instill a valueing education and respect for teachers. I've worked since my daugthers were weeks old yet they know their education is their responsibility and they know they are expected to respect their teachers. I don't even get home until after 5:00 most days yet my kids do their homework. Sometimes at the last minute but they know they have to get it done.

I don't need to meet with their teachers to know how they are doing. There's the online grade book, e mail, the good old telephone if I need it and, gasp, I can talk to THEM when I get home. Yes, we live in a 24 x 7 world. I can log on any time of day and check my kids grades.

Parents don't need to be more involved. They need to instill values!!! Making the child's homework the parents responsibility is not the solution. We need to make it THEIR responsibility. Parents just need to back that up. My dd's know that their educations are their responsibility. So much so that I don't even have to check grades on line. They come to me when they screw up, usually, with a plan in hand to fix things. They didn't get this way because I'm involved in their educations. They got this way because I taught them that to value education and that their education is THEIR responsibility....and I did this while working full time...go figure.
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:49 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,703,891 times
Reputation: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Working parents are not the issue unless you're making the child's homework the parent's responsibility. You don't have to stay home to instill a valueing education and respect for teachers. I've worked since my daugthers were weeks old yet they know their education is their responsibility and they know they are expected to respect their teachers. I don't even get home until after 5:00 most days yet my kids do their homework. Sometimes at the last minute but they know they have to get it done.

I don't need to meet with their teachers to know how they are doing. There's the online grade book, e mail, the good old telephone if I need it and, gasp, I can talk to THEM when I get home. Yes, we live in a 24 x 7 world. I can log on any time of day and check my kids grades.

Parents don't need to be more involved. They need to instill values!!! Making the child's homework the parents responsibility is not the solution. We need to make it THEIR responsibility. Parents just need to back that up. My dd's know that their educations are their responsibility. So much so that I don't even have to check grades on line. They come to me when they screw up, usually, with a plan in hand to fix things. They didn't get this way because I'm involved in their educations. They got this way because I taught them that to value education and that their education is THEIR responsibility....and I did this while working full time...go figure.
Make up your mind.
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:53 PM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read 6,188,472 times
Reputation: 2678
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyway31 View Post
If you could be a little more specific that would help. I tend to think I agree with what you're trying to get at. It's just a little lacking as far as real examples of what you're referring to at times.


Long story short: If you as a parent can ensure me that your child is willing to follow my reasonable rules and cooperate with me, I can promise you your child will learn all they are expected to know and more. I bristle at some of what's said here because I've had far to many cases where kids saw school as a big joke and following rules as a joke. Then they'd go home and tell their parents a lot of bologna about what happened at school. The parents just believed them sight unseen and decided their assumptions of most teachers being bad teachers was right. And thus the parents almost become advocates for their kids' (defiant, disrespectful) behavior. In matters where there are differing statements of what happens with a student at school, these parents don't support the teachers, they support their kids..even when they haven't been to the school to observe the teacher teach. That's very damaging to schools and teachers. A common comment I've heard said both to me and other teachers from these parents is "Get control of your classroom". It's as if these parents think teachers have the same recourse they as parents have in disciplining kids. We don't. We can't take away TV time at home for misbehavior. We can't offer a trip to Dinsey if they do well. We can't take away their cell phones. If they get really out of line, we can't spank or scold them. Parents can do all of that. We can't. That's why both parents and teachers need to work together. It can't be two separate entities merely opertating at different times of the day.
If you can't take away cell phones during class, then there is something very wrong with your administration. It's your class, and as such, you should have the right to demand that cell phones be at the very least, put in a bucket on your desk and taken back once class is over.

As far as communication with the teachers is concerned, I agree wholeheartedly that it must be a two-way street. I am very fortunate to have lengthy "discussions" via email with all of my kids teachers, and I do take advantage of that when I have a question, or question something that I've been told, but unfortunately, that obviously isn't the case in other situations.

As far as a specific example, I guess that this one could be chalked up more to administration vs. teachers, but tonight I will be attending a budget meeting in my district. I'll attempt to explain.

Due to the economic downturn, the assinine revenue "predictions" and a current in-state political administration who simply cannot say "Sorry, we can't afford that right now," and who also has used statistical manipulation to go back and forth between touting a "surplus" and a "deficit" (they can't seem to make their minds up one minute to the next) our school is cutting the music program in half to help save money. We are a new RSU as the state has forced schools to consolidate recently in a rushed and IMHO, completely fraudulent manner, but that's another topic.

I received a letter and the current budget numbers in a flyer in the mail on Saturday. Wonderful - they are attempting to notify me that they have worked on the budget - this is good. I work part-time on the evening shift. I was unable to make the budget meeting because I was called into work to cover for a sick coworker.

Okay, so be it; however, imagine my surprise when I hear via facebook from another parent, that the music program was being cut in half. Next I hear that 1 teaching position is being cut (only to be notified by someone else in the know that it was slated to be eliminated due to numbers anyway) and 4 Ed Tech positions were being cut in another school in the RSU.

I find it fascinating that I know of each and everything that goes on for functions at the school via flyers, mailings, and the bi-weekly newspaper, all of which comes home in the bookbags. Yes, I do go through them, and my kids know that they will incur the wrath of their mother if they don't check their mailboxes and pack notifications accordingly.

Whenever there is anything even slightly likely to result in parents questioning it, there seems to be no communication regarding the topic.
The grape vine is often the only way that parents who for whatever reason cannot attend the meetings know what's being cut.

Nowhere in that mailing was there 3 lines that stated they were cutting 1 teaching position, 4 tech positions and cutting the music program in half.

Currently, I'm in the process of ascertaining whether or not the Spanish program in K - 8 is mandatory. You see, I believe there is plenty of time to learn Spanish in high school, and a secondary language should be required for college BUT not in in the elementary grades while we are upping the educational ante by forcing younger kids to do higher levels of work. I consider music more academically relevant to a well-rounded education than Spanish. That's just me I suppose.

So, here we have a situation where I ask the questions. Do we have a newsletter? Yes. Do I provide the schools with my email address and phone number? Yes. Did the RSU ever send out any notifications to those who could not attend the meeting as to what they were cutting? No.
Should parents find out via facebook that important decisions have been made? No.

Believe me, I see plenty of blame to go around. I see nothing but misery in losing very good teachers (many have already left) because they are dealing with absolute foolishness.

Personally, I blame the lack of anyone to be able to leave their personal opinions behind and work toward a common goal of doing what's right for kids.

NoExcuses hit the nail on the head his or her post about who's blaming who.
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,618,189 times
Reputation: 14694
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
Make up your mind.
I have never advocated making a child's homework the parent's responsibility or parents hovering over their children or my classroom. What I want is parents to teach their children to take responsibility, to be accountable and to respect authority. When kids come from homes where everything is done for them, where they are not taught to respect authority and everyone else is to blame for their failures but them, they are very difficult to teach. I don't need parents on the PTA or in my classroom. I need them to teach their children basic values and hold THEM accountable. Sadly, the most "involved" parents are often more of a problem than a solution.

Here's a run down on my "involved" parents:

A student with anger management issues who has threatened me and I'm told, by mom, I shouldn't make him mad.
A student who never does her work and her parents call my principal to tell him that I must be losing her homework.
A student who has caused issues in several labs and mom justifies it with "he's impulsive"
A student who cusses me out and his mom says "He's like that when he's tired".

You want to know which parents I never see? The parents of my best students. They don't need to see me and I don't need to see them. Their kids take responsibility for their educations and are held accountable. I've never met the mom of one of my best students but I know she gets grounded for B's. I also haven't met the parents of some of the real slackers. The kids who just do nothing but I don't need to meet them either. Nothing would come of it. Acorns don't fall far from the trees.

Parents have a huge impact on the quality of their children's education but it's not from being "involved". It comes from the values, or lack thereof, they instill in their children. Seriously, I'm a very uninvolved parent. I don't hover over my children and tell them when to do their homework. I don't check to see it's done. My kids know the consequences if they don't do their work. I also don't have to worry about my kids disrespecting their teachers. They know they won't live long if it ever gets back to me they disrespected any adult. THAT is my job as a parent. It's their teachers jobs to educate them. I just prepare the pallet.

Working parents are not and never have been the problem. I have plenty of, successful, students who have working parents. Over indulgent parents who do too much for their kids and fail to hold them responsible, accountable and who don't teach them to value education are. Hover moms are just as bad as MIA moms. Sometimes worse. I have several students who could do just fine if their parents (very involved) would quit make excuses for them. All parents need to do is make sure there are consequences if their children don't live up to what is expected of them. If the kids know they face consequences at home, they'll get on the right page. Seriously, this is ALL I've done with my kids yet they succeed. Go figure.

Sorry, it doesn't take a stay at home mom to have successful students. It just takes parents teaching basic values. Instill those and we're pretty much home free.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 05-18-2010 at 07:41 PM..
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Old 05-19-2010, 09:13 AM
 
1,890 posts, read 3,127,487 times
Reputation: 1427
Quote:
Originally Posted by reloop View Post
If you can't take away cell phones during class, then there is something very wrong with your administration. It's your class, and as such, you should have the right to demand that cell phones be at the very least, put in a bucket on your desk and taken back once class is over.

As far as communication with the teachers is concerned, I agree wholeheartedly that it must be a two-way street. I am very fortunate to have lengthy "discussions" via email with all of my kids teachers, and I do take advantage of that when I have a question, or question something that I've been told, but unfortunately, that obviously isn't the case in other situations.

As far as a specific example, I guess that this one could be chalked up more to administration vs. teachers, but tonight I will be attending a budget meeting in my district. I'll attempt to explain.

Due to the economic downturn, the assinine revenue "predictions" and a current in-state political administration who simply cannot say "Sorry, we can't afford that right now," and who also has used statistical manipulation to go back and forth between touting a "surplus" and a "deficit" (they can't seem to make their minds up one minute to the next) our school is cutting the music program in half to help save money. We are a new RSU as the state has forced schools to consolidate recently in a rushed and IMHO, completely fraudulent manner, but that's another topic.

I received a letter and the current budget numbers in a flyer in the mail on Saturday. Wonderful - they are attempting to notify me that they have worked on the budget - this is good. I work part-time on the evening shift. I was unable to make the budget meeting because I was called into work to cover for a sick coworker.

Okay, so be it; however, imagine my surprise when I hear via facebook from another parent, that the music program was being cut in half. Next I hear that 1 teaching position is being cut (only to be notified by someone else in the know that it was slated to be eliminated due to numbers anyway) and 4 Ed Tech positions were being cut in another school in the RSU.

I find it fascinating that I know of each and everything that goes on for functions at the school via flyers, mailings, and the bi-weekly newspaper, all of which comes home in the bookbags. Yes, I do go through them, and my kids know that they will incur the wrath of their mother if they don't check their mailboxes and pack notifications accordingly.

Whenever there is anything even slightly likely to result in parents questioning it, there seems to be no communication regarding the topic.
The grape vine is often the only way that parents who for whatever reason cannot attend the meetings know what's being cut.

Nowhere in that mailing was there 3 lines that stated they were cutting 1 teaching position, 4 tech positions and cutting the music program in half.

Currently, I'm in the process of ascertaining whether or not the Spanish program in K - 8 is mandatory. You see, I believe there is plenty of time to learn Spanish in high school, and a secondary language should be required for college BUT not in in the elementary grades while we are upping the educational ante by forcing younger kids to do higher levels of work. I consider music more academically relevant to a well-rounded education than Spanish. That's just me I suppose.

So, here we have a situation where I ask the questions. Do we have a newsletter? Yes. Do I provide the schools with my email address and phone number? Yes. Did the RSU ever send out any notifications to those who could not attend the meeting as to what they were cutting? No.
Should parents find out via facebook that important decisions have been made? No.

Believe me, I see plenty of blame to go around. I see nothing but misery in losing very good teachers (many have already left) because they are dealing with absolute foolishness.

Personally, I blame the lack of anyone to be able to leave their personal opinions behind and work toward a common goal of doing what's right for kids.

NoExcuses hit the nail on the head his or her post about who's blaming who.
The issue with things like cell phones is when teachers ask the kids for their phones in such a situation, the kid point blank tells the teacher "No". If/when we notify the administration of this, we're told to refer the kid to the counselor in charge of SPED. Said counselor warns the kid not to take the phone out in class again and lets the kid go back to class with the phone. Thus, the problem keeps happening. When we ask why they can't enforce the rule to a greater degree and have greater consequences for defiance, we're told it's because the kid has an IEP. Mind you, the IEP doesn't say anything about the kid being allowed to have a cell phone in class or defy school rules. It's just that, if the school actually followed through, all they could really end up doing at the end of the day is suspend the kid. And, our school district opposes suspensions, especially for SPED kids. Our school administration would get dinged by the district people for suspending. Problem is, if you can't suspend AND there is little to no support from the parents/guardians, you're really basically at the mercy of the kid. Like NoExcuses said, kids end up with the impression that they are kings and queens. I've had many situations where a kid has had his/her phone out in class, been texting friends, I see it, tell them to put it away and they don't. Then I ask for the phone, they say "No, it's MY phone" and laugh at me. That's what's happened after I've written referrals as in the situation I mentioned above. And, again, with kids who would do such a thing, a call home does absolutely no good 80% of the time. The parents of such a kid have taught the kid that the phone IS his/hers and nobody-teachers included- can take it. In fact, I've had parents tell me and our school admin directly that we can't take their kid's phone. We can, of course. But, you can imagine the uphill battle we face if the parent takes such tact. It would become such a big deal to enforce the rule in such a case that the school admin often sees it best just to tell the kid not to do it again. Obviously, with that type of dynamic in play, you're pretty much in need of a miracle to manage that kid's behavior. And then, after witnessing such scenarios play out, many of the other kids decide they can join in too. And then things sprial out of control.

As for cutting teaching positions etc, a lot of that is not absoutely set in stone yet. Many/most/all school districts don't know exactly how many positions they'll have next year. The RIF notices are sent out to the greatest number possible to cover for the worst case scenario. But, it's not exactly known how official all of those layoffs will be until July or even Spetember in some cases. That's why they may not have been so quick to broadcast that information in school newsletters.

Regarding Spanish: I do know there is clear, substantial evidence that kids that learn multiple languages from Day 1 acquire language at a much faster rate. It's thought to be beneficial to both their mastery of Spanish AND English to learn both together and at an early age. I used to feel the same way you did on that matter. But, the research is pretty overwhelming in favor of learning multiple langauges at once at an early age.
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Old 05-19-2010, 11:03 AM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read 6,188,472 times
Reputation: 2678
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyway31 View Post
The issue with things like cell phones is when teachers ask the kids for their phones in such a situation, the kid point blank tells the teacher "No". If/when we notify the administration of this, we're told to refer the kid to the counselor in charge of SPED. Said counselor warns the kid not to take the phone out in class again and lets the kid go back to class with the phone. Thus, the problem keeps happening. When we ask why they can't enforce the rule to a greater degree and have greater consequences for defiance, we're told it's because the kid has an IEP. Mind you, the IEP doesn't say anything about the kid being allowed to have a cell phone in class or defy school rules. It's just that, if the school actually followed through, all they could really end up doing at the end of the day is suspend the kid. And, our school district opposes suspensions, especially for SPED kids. Our school administration would get dinged by the district people for suspending. Problem is, if you can't suspend AND there is little to no support from the parents/guardians, you're really basically at the mercy of the kid. Like NoExcuses said, kids end up with the impression that they are kings and queens. I've had many situations where a kid has had his/her phone out in class, been texting friends, I see it, tell them to put it away and they don't. Then I ask for the phone, they say "No, it's MY phone" and laugh at me. That's what's happened after I've written referrals as in the situation I mentioned above. And, again, with kids who would do such a thing, a call home does absolutely no good 80% of the time. The parents of such a kid have taught the kid that the phone IS his/hers and nobody-teachers included- can take it. In fact, I've had parents tell me and our school admin directly that we can't take their kid's phone. We can, of course. But, you can imagine the uphill battle we face if the parent takes such tact. It would become such a big deal to enforce the rule in such a case that the school admin often sees it best just to tell the kid not to do it again. Obviously, with that type of dynamic in play, you're pretty much in need of a miracle to manage that kid's behavior. And then, after witnessing such scenarios play out, many of the other kids decide they can join in too. And then things sprial out of control.

As for cutting teaching positions etc, a lot of that is not absoutely set in stone yet. Many/most/all school districts don't know exactly how many positions they'll have next year. The RIF notices are sent out to the greatest number possible to cover for the worst case scenario. But, it's not exactly known how official all of those layoffs will be until July or even Spetember in some cases. That's why they may not have been so quick to broadcast that information in school newsletters.

Regarding Spanish: I do know there is clear, substantial evidence that kids that learn multiple languages from Day 1 acquire language at a much faster rate. It's thought to be beneficial to both their mastery of Spanish AND English to learn both together and at an early age. I used to feel the same way you did on that matter. But, the research is pretty overwhelming in favor of learning multiple langauges at once at an early age.
Well, you have my empathy. I know that no one seems to want to confront anyone about anything anymore - which often solves issues if done properly. Administration needs to back you more as far as I'm concerned, but that's neither here nor there. I'm pretty much a black and white kind of person. If a child chronically misbehaves he or she needs to get the boot. I would include my child in that number because I've seen first hand how disruptive an unruly child can be to a class full of kids who are actually doing what they're supposed to be doing.

As far as cuts, this was a budget meeting - they do have the numbers. Our state has been fudging numbers for many years now - this is what annoys me the most. Years ago they were supposed to fund to a certain percent (which they neither attained nor were particularly forthright in stating why they couldn't) and a referendum was brought forth and voted on to force their hand. Instead of following through, the economy completely tanked, and thus began a long, sordid, forced consolidation process which was the bane of most citizens existence. I liken the state's role in this drama to a flock of chickens running around with their heads cut off. They said one thing one minute, and then turned around and said something completely different. It caused a lot of heartburn to say the least.

The problem as I see it lies more in personalities and not wanting an angry mob to descend upon the meeting, which I suppose is understandable given the propensity for some people to go off without so much as hearing the other side of the story now-a-days, but I was sure to mention that as a parent who has had to work on many nights when there was a meeting, the website at the very least should have the minutes of previous meetings instead of just a placeholder. They appeared to be completely unaware that no one was posting the minutes - kinda. I find it sad that I have to find out about potentially controversial topics by "sneaky" methods (and usually because I will listen to teachers who can't say "boo" about anything lest it make their work life miserable). Too many politics spoil the education IMHO, and I do think that parents need to know what goes on - preferably by volunteering or subbing - before they start grousing too much about it. Each situation is different. It doesn't take much to find out the whole story IMO.

As far as Spanish is concerned, I used to think the way you think now - that early education is beneficial with a second language, but then I discovered that my child was being held in for his paltry 20 minute recess break to work on something he failed to understand the first time. With the manic test score focus on Reading and Mathematics, to me anyway, I see him as being so burnt out, the last thing he wants to do is add a foreign language to the mix.

The reason that this annoys me is that I have a hard enough time getting him to write a coherent sentence in English much less Spanish, and since English is his native language, I think that he needs to learn that to mastery first. In fact, next year I'll be watching that even more closely because if I see it again, he won't be attending Spanish at all - he'll be using that time to practice his English language skills if it's the last thing I do. He's 12 years old. He should be able to write and spell better than he does. As far as I'm concerned, it's now or never to learn to communicate effectively.

Last edited by cebdark; 05-19-2010 at 11:05 AM.. Reason: sentence clarity
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Old 05-19-2010, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Canada
48 posts, read 196,498 times
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I think most of the problem has to do w/ uninterested parents which leads to uninterested kids. Most likely, if the parent didn't finish H.S., the child isn't going to put a lot of emphasis on education.

BUT, I think the principal is to blame, too. Well, maybe not in every district but I know in my district, the kids aren't held accountable for anything. What happened to FAILING kids if they don't put for an effort in schools? Schools in my district pass kids no matter what. I think a lot of public schools are like this. Not all, but most. I went to a private school and they would fail you over, and over, and over, and over again if you didn't make the grades; they didn't care. Sometimes, the parents would just take the student out of the school and put them in a public school...and they'd "magically" pass. Um...ok.

Students aren't going to put forth an effort if they know they don't have to. Well, the ones who are not children of successful parents. When I was a long-term sub, I told one of the lazy students that I had no problems failing him if he didn't do his work. He looked at me, laughed, and said, "You can't! I already failed last year." So, I said, "Well, I guess you'll fail again if you don't do your work." He laughed, again, and said, "YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO FAIL ME TWICE. I GET TO PASS NO MATTER WHAT I DO!"

How ridiculous is that? This, is why students don't try, behave, etc. They don't have to. I blame the principal/school district in my city.

I'm not a certified teacher but I rarely think the teacher is to blame. If they teacher was backed up by administration and the students were willing, the teachers would be able to do their job. It's hard to teach when the parents don't care, students don't care, and the admin is just there to collect a paycheck...and just glad they don't have to "deal" with students. Shameful.
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Old 05-19-2010, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Hollywood)
174 posts, read 517,708 times
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Default HAHA - You must be in LA Unified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtisticAthlete View Post
I think most of the problem has to do w/ uninterested parents which leads to uninterested kids. Most likely, if the parent didn't finish H.S., the child isn't going to put a lot of emphasis on education.

BUT, I think the principal is to blame, too. Well, maybe not in every district but I know in my district, the kids aren't held accountable for anything. What happened to FAILING kids if they don't put for an effort in schools? Schools in my district pass kids no matter what. I think a lot of public schools are like this. Not all, but most. I went to a private school and they would fail you over, and over, and over, and over again if you didn't make the grades; they didn't care. Sometimes, the parents would just take the student out of the school and put them in a public school...and they'd "magically" pass. Um...ok.

Students aren't going to put forth an effort if they know they don't have to. Well, the ones who are not children of successful parents. When I was a long-term sub, I told one of the lazy students that I had no problems failing him if he didn't do his work. He looked at me, laughed, and said, "You can't! I already failed last year." So, I said, "Well, I guess you'll fail again if you don't do your work." He laughed, again, and said, "YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO FAIL ME TWICE. I GET TO PASS NO MATTER WHAT I DO!"

How ridiculous is that? This, is why students don't try, behave, etc. They don't have to. I blame the principal/school district in my city.

I'm not a certified teacher but I rarely think the teacher is to blame. If they teacher was backed up by administration and the students were willing, the teachers would be able to do their job. It's hard to teach when the parents don't care, students don't care, and the admin is just there to collect a paycheck...and just glad they don't have to "deal" with students. Shameful.
We still fail them two or three times at my high school, but then they trot off to special Intersession programs, or to Skills Centers, or to the Beyond the Bell program (I refer to it as "Beyond the Fail"). They can earn high school credit by just sitting and texting in a classroom. Once they erode away tenure and seniority it will mean an end to any genuine academics at the high school level. You say our corrupt and inept principal doesn't like you? Welcome to the unemployment line.
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Old 05-19-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Canada
48 posts, read 196,498 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by skreem2 View Post
We still fail them two or three times at my high school, but then they trot off to special Intersession programs, or to Skills Centers, or to the Beyond the Bell program (I refer to it as "Beyond the Fail"). They can earn high school credit by just sitting and texting in a classroom. Once they erode away tenure and seniority it will mean an end to any genuine academics at the high school level. You say our corrupt and inept principal doesn't like you? Welcome to the unemployment line.
No, I'm actually in Clark County. It's the biggest schl district in NV. And, let me just tell you, it's HORRIBLE. I've never seen soooo many ridiculous/lazy students and unaware/unorganized faculty as I've seen w/ this district. No wonder they're the worst (or 2nd to the worst) educational system. I would NEVER send my kids to a CCSD school. Never! I mean, I don't have any kids but just in case I did. Lol.

Students always say, "Oh! The Dean's office is cool. We just get to hang out." Um. Huh? You know it's bad when students ASK to be sent to the Dean's. Ridiculous!

About passing students who don't need to be passed--I was a H.S. long-term sub (for math) and one guy was a senior in a 9th/10th grade math class. He was sooo lazy. He asked to see his counselor so he could make sure everything was taken care of for graduation. I was shocked! Who in the world would let this kid graduate!? Annnddd, how the ___ did he make it to 12th grade? He couldn't even multiply.

The resource teacher told me all the NV schools pass kids no matter what, b/c they have an excessive amount of kids coming into the school that need those seats. So, they just try to get students through school and get rid of them. Um...wow! Shameful.
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