Dallas Skyline(WOW)Yes another Dallas to Houston comparison thread! (Austin: to move, stadium)

[savanite]

Originally Posted by feufoma

People in Houston have greater access to mass transit if they have to use it and our LRT has higher ridership per mile. Moreover, the park and ride system is better. Yes, Houston has better mass transit than Dallas. Not much to argue about.

Well, there are many criteria by which to judge mass transit.

As to higher usage per mile, that may be not relevant, since the current system is so small, it is not in the same class of comparison as a large suburban transit system such as DART or Denver's system. Moreover, the passengers do not care how many people the system carries, they only care if they get where they're going without too much trouble.

Higher ridership per mile on a street running system is not an asset, it is a detriment, more crowding for the passengers, and more vulnerability to traffic interruptions. Too much traffic in too narrow a pipeline.

On the other hand, the heavy traffic between downtown and the medical center, and Metro's use of single car trains means that there is a rail car more often, greater frequency.

In addition to LRRT, Dallas also has a streetcar system for the neighborhoods north of downtown, and it is being expanded. In addition, another streetcar line is funded and will be built, from downtown to south of the river, and eventually to the cute Bishop Arts District. A third streetcar system thru downtown Dallas is being studied.

The Dallas system is faster, covers more territory in a given amount of time. The Houston Red line takes 30 minutes to get from downtown to the end of the line, about a 7 mile ride. This is slow because it is street running, essentially a streetcar. Dallas DART is Light Rail Rapid Transit, with a dedicated off street right of way, and can go twice as fast.

Houston's existing system on main does a good job of connecting downtown to the medical center and the stadium, and carries heavy traffic between them, but Dallas's DART connects many more places in its territory, and thus is more useful in its selection of destinations.

The Houston commuter bus system is better than Dallas' in the sense that there are more destinations. Also, the bus service along Westheimer and the destinations it serves is better.

Dallas has already built two commuter rail systems and is planning more. It has an advantage there.

If Houston does build a commuter rail line to connect to the southern end of the Red line, the passengers will have the time it takes to go from Missouri City to the Fannin station, and then another half hour to get downtown. Furthermore, since the line is crowded due to its high density, the commuter rail passengers will have a somewhat uncomfortable ride. There are only so many cars that can travel on Main street at a time.

If and when Houston builds the University line, passengers will take a circuitous route to get to the Galleria from downtown, or travel in the reverse direction. Metro should build a more direct line. Or maybe not, the planned alignment may be good enough.

There are actually pros and cons for both system. Deciding which is better is a matter for individual priorities.

[stoneclaw]

Originally Posted by feufoma

People in Houston have greater access to mass transit if they have to use it and our LRT has higher ridership per mile. Moreover, the park and ride system is better. Yes, Houston has better mass transit than Dallas. Not much to argue about.

Dallas's mass transit trumps Houston's. In spite of it having less ridership per mile.

stoneclaw/C2H (ComingtoHouston)

[feufoma]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

Dallas's mass transit trumps Houston's. In spite of it having less ridership per mile.

stoneclaw/C2H (ComingtoHouston)

Which system (rail, bus HOV) moves more people? Houston's.

[soletaire]

No point in lying about it: Personally, trees do matter to me. Their presence (for me) enhances the entire mood and landscape of an area. It creates natural lighting variances and livens an environment up, in the sense that it represents life, growth, and sustainability itself. Its one of the reasons that I choose Houston over Dallas or other areas of Texas. The more I read about DFW, Im starting to think that DFW does excel in some areas over Houston, but I just cant get with the barren, desolate, sterile look. Lying to myself and saying that it doesnt matter because they're "just trees", when it does matter to me, doesnt do me any favors in the longrun.

I had a coworker from Georgia comment that he couldnt acclimate himself to North Texas because of its lack of tree coverage. I really think that people from areas that are naturally heavily vegetated, might place more of an importance on that sort of thing. I noticed that very few DFW natives notice their region lacks trees. My cousin from Dallas seems to just consider trees some kind of lame accessory that you find in country/rural locales. I think to many them, consider living in a barren, parched, concrete jungle a part of being an urbanite, as they've never really had a lush environment anyway; although thats not necessarily true if you go to other cities that are lush.

[JJG]

Originally Posted by soletaire

I had a coworker from Georgia comment that he couldnt acclimate himself to North Texas because of its lack of tree coverage. I really think that people from areas that are naturally heavily vegetated, might place more of an importance on that sort of thing. I noticed that very few DFW natives notice their region lacks trees. My cousin from Dallas seems to just consider trees some kind of lame accessory that you find in country/rural locales. I think to many them, consider living in a barren, parched, concrete jungle a part of being an urbanite, as they've never really had a lush environment anyway; although thats not necessarily true if you go to other cities that are lush.

Um... that's a new one.

DFW sits on a prairie, what do you expect?

[soletaire]

Originally Posted by JJG

Um... that's a new one.

DFW sits on a prairie, what do you expect?

Umm...Obviously I shouldnt expect much, I guess

[stoneclaw]

Originally Posted by feufoma

Which system (rail, bus HOV) moves more people? Houston's.

dallas's is cleaner and sexier.


stone

[savanite]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

Dallas's mass transit trumps Houston's. In spite of it having less ridership per mile.

stoneclaw/C2H (ComingtoHouston)

Houston's system is all of 7 miles, serving the most dense corridor in the area. The Dallas system also has 7 mile stretches that are denser in ridership per mile than Houston's 7 miles. Dallas's system has the advantage of providing access to areas that would have less traffic, in addition to serving the more densely populated inner core.

In that wise, DART is better for the passengers, since it gives them access to a larger portion of its metro. You can go farther, faster, to more places on DART.

In addition to DART, the DFW area also has the TRE rail system, the DCTA rail corridor, and the McKinney Ave streetcar line. More streetcar lines are in the way, either fully funded or planned.

To be fair, Houston got a late start in the transit game, due to political interference, and will build some more miles of rail. It will be, however, street running, not true rapid transit, as in DART. And even at full buildout, it will be much smaller, and serve only the inner core area within the loop.

[savanite]

Originally Posted by JJG

Um... that's a new one.

DFW sits on a prairie, what do you expect?

Well, it's true that there is a lot of grassland in the North Texas region, but there is a lot of woodland, as well, such as in the watersheds, and riverine bottomland. And also, the thick forest known as the Cross Timbers region bisects the DFW area, going thru places such as Arlington, Southlake, Denton, Euless, parts of Irving, etc. The Cross Timbers forest, east and west branches, is about 40 miles wide, and extends about 200 miles north and south, through North Texas and Oklahoma.

The Cross Timbers forest actually became a natural defensive boundary , protecting the local tribes from the maurading horsemen to the west. The Cross Timbers were so thick, you couldn't "cross" them.

Outside of the Cross Timbers forest, it seems that the North Texas Prairie is about 1/3 woodland and 2/3 grassland.

The Houston area touches the pine forests at its northern edge, but is predominantly on the Gulf Coastal plain, and is not particularly forested, especially in its southern reaches.

Within the built up urban areas, Dallas and Houston seem to have the same degree of leafy suburbs with planted street trees, and urban areas with ornamental trees on the sidewalks.

[marcopolo2000]

Originally Posted by feufoma

Which system (rail, bus HOV) moves more people? Houston's.

No one cares about buses and HOV lanes. Thats part of the problem when it comes to Houston's inadequate transit system.