What Texas City has the Largest bus fleet? (Houston, Dallas: cul-de-sac, tax)

[Mr. Clutch]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

I disagree with a lot you just said. The Silver Line is completely a vanity project. The numbers are simply not there at all to justify it. Literally a few hundred people per day for some of those stations. They would’ve been better off simply improving bus service in the area. That’s why DART’s ridership is so poor. You don’t build rail expecting for ridership to increase in a non dense area because it’s not guaranteed. That’s why rail is always built in dense areas to increase the likelihood of high ridership. DART simply wanted to be cheap and bought old freight lines in areas with little to no density. The new CEO of DART tried to stop the Silver Line project, but it was already under construction. Because of it, D2 is not being built for the foreseeable future. DART does miss some of Dallas’ most dense neighborhoods. This is talked about a lot on the Dallas subreddit. Dallasites on there are a lot more real about issues that face our city. DART always comes up as a real issue. Expanding DART is the reason why DART is having a hard time with safety. They can’t focus resources on taking care of current DART stations because of the lower ridership and expansion. That’s why they stopped D2. Funding will help to improve safety which have went down dramatically in recent years.

Lower Greenville needs rail simply because of all the development that’s already in that area. That area is known for having parking issues and rail would help with that. Lower Greenville was originally served by rail when it was built. That’s why most of the legacy buildings don’t have parking. They are planning to add even more development in the immediate area that will further increase car traffic. Preston Center is a commercial district with over 3 million sq ft of office space, 500,000 sq ft of retail, and hotel/residential space. Preston Center covers slightly over 100 acres. That area needs rail. People who live outside of that area need a way to get there other than a car. That’s why the traffic on NW Highway and Preston Rd/The Tollway is high during rush hour. Rail at HPV wouldn’t make any sense because it’s a very small shopping center in a residential area and most people wouldn’t use it.


None of those places actually need rail and the ridership reflects it. That’s why DART should’ve waited until there was a need for it. Suburbanites don’t use rail and the slow travel time to get there makes it unattractive.

+1. Rail isn't a "build it and they will come" thing, especially in 2023. The car is already the favored form of transportation, especially in Texas. While it's gotten noticeably worse traffic-wise in recent years, DFW still isn't that hard to get around by car and probably won't be for decades, if ever. Many, if not most of those warehouse districts that DART passes through will still be warehouse districts 20 or 30 years from now.

You are completely correct on the Silver Line and its vanity status. Suburbanites aren't going to use it in any serious numbers except possibly to go to/from DFW and I'm even skeptical that it will be that popular for those types of trips due to the travel time - it will take notably longer than driving the vast majority of the time. This is my concern when talking about the rail to IAH that many folks like to fantasize about here - at the end of the day most of those folks wouldn't actually use it due to the travel time. There was a direct bus from downtown and uptown to IAH for years that cost $1.50 IIRC. It was never used and I believe neither of those services exist today. And it was faster than any rail solution would be. The reality is that many of those Silver Line stations won't crack 1,000 passengers a day for years if not decades.

The people that lament the delay of D2 are correct in that it was a much more useful project than the Silver Line and would have been much better for the system as a whole by enabling shorter headways throughout. That would at least solve the poor quality of service issue. However, even D2 wouldn't be able to make up for the poor density present throughout much of the rest of the system. That's ingrained in the choices made in the 80s and 90s and not going anyway any time soon. Some areas will densify but it should be abundantly clear by now that TOD doesn't just pop up because a rail line is nearby. Not in Dallas, not in Houston, not anywhere that doesn't have huge urban development pressures.

[spacecitytx]

Originally Posted by Romping Willy Billy

Who was that Congressman from the Houston area that kept canceling mass transit funding for Metro because he didn't want mass transit arriving out in Sugarland? Something Daly?
He was the reason Houston fell so far behind in light rail development. Rather than fume in anger because of him, you are trying to belittle the incredible rail system acheived in North Texas.
Frankly, it is quite silly.
A foreign tourist from Germany is always going to want to visit an area that has rail. Especially from Germany! They have lots of engineers both locomotive and civil!

No one is belittling ANYTHING

You Dallas Boosters claim that Houston's rail system in pathetically small, which is true. I can easily admit that...I don't lose any sleep over it.

Houstonians claim that Dallas' rail system has pathetically poor ridership despite it being so extensive, which is ALSO true...yet you guys have a problem admitting it, and will make up any excuse as to WHY that doesn't matter, lol.

It's sad and pathetic. I promise it's not that big of a deal if you actually try to sit back and think about it.

[spacecitytx]

Originally Posted by Mr. Clutch

+1. Rail isn't a "build it and they will come" thing, especially in 2023. The car is already the favored form of transportation, especially in Texas. While it's gotten noticeably worse traffic-wise in recent years, DFW still isn't that hard to get around by car and probably won't be for decades, if ever. Many, if not most of those warehouse districts that DART passes through will still be warehouse districts 20 or 30 years from now.

You are completely correct on the Silver Line and its vanity status. Suburbanites aren't going to use it in any serious numbers except possibly to go to/from DFW and I'm even skeptical that it will be that popular for those types of trips due to the travel time - it will take notably longer than driving the vast majority of the time. This is my concern when talking about the rail to IAH that many folks like to fantasize about here - at the end of the day most of those folks wouldn't actually use it due to the travel time. There was a direct bus from downtown and uptown to IAH for years that cost $1.50 IIRC. It was never used and I believe neither of those services exist today. And it was faster than any rail solution would be. The reality is that many of those Silver Line stations won't crack 1,000 passengers a day for years if not decades.

The people that lament the delay of D2 are correct in that it was a much more useful project than the Silver Line and would have been much better for the system as a whole by enabling shorter headways throughout. That would at least solve the poor quality of service issue. However, even D2 wouldn't be able to make up for the poor density present throughout much of the rest of the system. That's ingrained in the choices made in the 80s and 90s and not going anyway any time soon. Some areas will densify but it should be abundantly clear by now that TOD doesn't just pop up because a rail line is nearby. Not in Dallas, not in Houston, not anywhere that doesn't have huge urban development pressures.

To the bolded:

Yet dallasboi will have you believe that it was PLANNED that way, lol. This guy keeps grasping at straws.

[Mr. Clutch]

Originally Posted by spacecitytx

To the bolded:

Yet dallasboi will have you believe that it was PLANNED that way, lol. This guy keeps grasping at straws.

At the end of the day, DFW wasted a lot of money on DART rail. With the same (or even less) amount of money, they could have built a shorter more focused system that actually connected population centers and had enough capacity to do better than 15 minute headways. They would have spent more upfront on ROW acquisition and line construction but would have gotten a better ROI over time. A major issue with DART is that outside of downtown, the trains don't come enough to be a great option for many folks.

I fear the Silver Line, in particular, will be a significant drain on DART resources over time - an expensive, heavy rail shared corridor with dodgy ridership prospects is not a great way to bolster agency finances.

But hey, longest rail system in the South so its the best!

[dallasboi]

Why don't yall get out of yall feelings sometimes!!!!!!!!!!! Nobody has to kiss Houstons a**. If Houston had a better system I WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM SAYING IT.....BUT IT DOESN'T.


All yall do is team up and act like I'm really BASHING Houston and I never am...I guess my opinion matters a lot more than I thought....

I think because Houston has a million more people than Dallas, makes y'all think Houston is automatically better in everything.... And when yall get something different yall feel attacked or like someone is Bragging...It doesn't work like that......It's like y'all are bred to hate Dallas so when something good is pointed out that gives it shine you become offended....I just don't get it......

[dallasboi]

..And another thing about this "VANITY" Project crap.......

How can the silver line be a VANITY project if THEY paid for it. When people pay for something YOU GIVE IT TO THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you bought shoes online and it took 2 months to get them are you still owed the shoes?!!!..YES

After you finally get them.....Does the sender have a right to be mad at you because you still wanted them after 2 months and say they are a vanity project for you?...NO



The suburbs bought them shoes years ago...and now we had to be a man of our word and give them their shoes!!!!!


But now the suburbs are vain for wanting what they paid for and its a vanity project for Dallas because we gave them their Sh*t........ok.

[atadytic19]

The Cambridge Dictionary defines a vanity project as one undertaken for fame, accolades or for approval rather than for serious or good reasons.

Giving it to them just because they want it should be a good sign that it is a vanity project.

[spacecitytx]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

..And another thing about this "VANITY" Project crap.......

How can the silver line be a VANITY project if THEY paid for it. When people pay for something YOU GIVE IT TO THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you bought shoes online and it took 2 months to get them are you still owed the shoes?!!!..YES

After you finally get them.....Does the sender have a right to be mad at you because you still wanted them after 2 months and say they are a vanity project for you?...NO



The suburbs bought them shoes years ago...and now we had to be a man of our word and give them their shoes!!!!!


But now the suburbs are vain for wanting what they paid for and its a vanity project for Dallas because we gave them their Sh*t........ok.

You're really sensitive, aren't you??

Again...no one's TRASHING the DART. We're simply pointing out it's FLAWS, just like you're quick to point out MetroRail's flaws. So why is it that we Houstonians can take that criticism and not lose any sleep over it, yet YOU act like the world is ending when anything remotely negative is spoken about your precious train???

Look in the mirror bub...YOU'RE the one all in his feelings

[spacecitytx]

Originally Posted by atadytic19

The Cambridge Dictionary defines a vanity project as one undertaken for fame, accolades or for approval rather than for serious or good reasons.

Giving it to them just because they want it should be a good sign that it is a vanity project.

Spot on!

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by atadytic19

The Cambridge Dictionary defines a vanity project as one undertaken for fame, accolades or for approval rather than for serious or good reasons.

Giving it to them just because they want it should be a good sign that it is a vanity project.

NO they PAID FOR IT.