FtW/Arlington's wish to be included in Bullet Train access could jeopardize chances of Dallas-Houston High Speed Rail (San Antonio: real estate, 2014)

[JimBaker488]

If one bullet train is good, how about two?
A private plan for high-speed rail between Dallas and Houston is starting to gain some traction. Now local leaders want to piggyback on the project and add a leg from Dallas to Fort Worth, with a stop in Arlington.
The add-on would make a heavy lift heavier. Most bullet trains lose money, partly because politicians demand costly extensions.
But the temptation is understandable. The west side of the metro area lags badly on mass transit, especially rail. The bullet train offers a rare chance to catch up and link the region.
Commute times from Fort Worth to Dallas could be slashed to 19 minutes, and fans would be able to get to pro stadiums much easier.
***
But for the Fort Worth spur to become a reality, the Dallas-Houston bullet train has to be built. That’s the catalyst.

Public tie could slow plan for high-speed rail between Dallas, Houston | Dallas Morning News

[dollaztx]

As a person who lives on the borderline of Arlington and Grand Prairie and who frequents FW on a regular basis, I don't see the point of having the train stop in Fort Worth and Arlington. Then Grand Prairie is going to want a station too, then HEB and CentrePort/DFW

1. It Defeats the purpose - A bullet train is intended to go fast between far distances. What's the point of a bullet train to go from Dallas to Fort Worth when they are so close and they would have to make additional stops in Arlington and who knows where else, CentrePort? Which would force it to go slow.

2. Light Rail - Isn't that why Light Rail exist, to travel within a metro? If it's really needed (which I think it is) we should build a light rail line starting where the bullet train station starts and ending in Fort Worth with a stop in Arlington and other places along the way. It would practically be the same thing, but cheaper than a bullet train that wouldn't serve it's purpose because of multiple stops and distance.

3.This will slow or stop progress - It will just become to complicated and costly and maybe even Plano/Frisco would want to divert the line that would go to Fort Worth to go north instead or northwest to DFW.

[majicdonjuan]

Originally Posted by dollaztx

As a person who lives on the borderline of Arlington and Grand Prairie and who frequents FW on a regular basis, I don't see the point of having the train stop in Fort Worth and Arlington. Then Grand Prairie is going to want a station too, then HEB and CentrePort/DFW

1. It Defeats the purpose - A bullet train is intended to go fast between far distances. What's the point of a bullet train to go from Dallas to Fort Worth when they are so close and they would have to make additional stops in Arlington and who knows where else, CentrePort? Which would force it to go slow.

2. Light Rail - Isn't that why Light Rail exist, to travel within a metro? If it's really needed (which I think it is) we should build a light rail line starting where the bullet train station starts and ending in Fort Worth with a stop in Arlington and other places along the way. It would practically be the same thing, but cheaper than a bullet train that wouldn't serve it's purpose because of multiple stops and distance.

3.This will slow or stop progress - It will just become to complicated and costly and maybe even Plano/Frisco would want to divert the line that would go to Fort Worth to go north instead or northwest to DFW.

I agree with this. They don't need a high-speed link between FTW and Dallas. They have the TRE for that.

You need enormous distance for accel-decel for HSR, and a short 30 mile link that already exists isn't the right approach in my opinion. It will simply add cost and complexity. A better solution is to make sure there is a linkage from the HSR station to the TRE for Fort Worth bound travelers.

[RMFW]

The possibility of a future HSR line coming down from Oklahoma City on down toward Austin and San Antonio (together with the high likelihood that such a line would run along I-35W rather than I-35E) makes a western link more appealing IMHO. Also worth pointing out (taking the question of Arlington out of it for a moment), that Dallas and Fort Worth are roughly the same distance from each other as Osaka and Kyoto - two stops along the existing Shinkansen line in Japan, so I guess this doesn't seem all that far fetched to me. Plus, such an extension would actually pull the line into the heart of the urban center(s) as opposed to ending at giant park-and-rides at the edge of Dallas and Houston as is currently under consideration by the private HSR developer and which, I believe, makes it a much less attractive option.

Plus, I've seen no real indication whatsoever that any of the moves being made by Fort Worth and those at the State, do anything to put at risk the Houston-Dallas segment. Mitchell Schurman (the author of the article) is just stirring the pot with this one (successfully so, it would seem).

[JJG]

Originally, it was supposed to START in Fort Worth, then go through Dallas to Houston.

What changed?

[majicdonjuan]

Originally Posted by JJG

Originally, it was supposed to START in Fort Worth, then go through Dallas to Houston.

What changed?

I don't think that this private company ever intended to start the line in Fort Worth (though I know that has been the idea in past studies). I could be wrong though...

Regardless, that's another $2 billion for something that will primarily only benefit Tarrant County. I can see why the private company doesn't want to build it - they want the minimum amount of risk for maximum reward.

That Ft. Worth spur is much more risky than the Dallas-Houston line and probably far more expensive to build per mile within the metroplex because of the higher real estate prices compared to the farmland between Dallas and Houston. I'm sure it's purely a financial decision.

[dollaztx]

Originally Posted by RMFW

The possibility of a future HSR line coming down from Oklahoma City on down toward Austin and San Antonio (together with the high likelihood that such a line would run along I-35W rather than I-35E) makes a western link more appealing IMHO. Also worth pointing out (taking the question of Arlington out of it for a moment), that Dallas and Fort Worth are roughly the same distance from each other as Osaka and Kyoto - two stops along the existing Shinkansen line in Japan, so I guess this doesn't seem all that far fetched to me. Plus, such an extension would actually pull the line into the heart of the urban center(s) as opposed to ending at giant park-and-rides at the edge of Dallas and Houston as is currently under consideration by the private HSR developer and which, I believe, makes it a much less attractive option.

Plus, I've seen no real indication whatsoever that any of the moves being made by Fort Worth and those at the State, do anything to put at risk the Houston-Dallas segment. Mitchell Schurman (the author of the article) is just stirring the pot with this one (successfully so, it would seem).

But the fact is that Arlington is part of the equation. In my opinion Fort Worth vying for this alone would have seem more realistic. Due to it's density, to me the area between Fort Worth and Dallas just seems better suited for light rail due to the many cities and attractions that are along the way. With light rail we could have a stop at West Dallas, Lone Star/Verizon Theater, Six Flags/Cowboys/Rangers, Cooper, Green Oaks, and then kind of follow Lancaster on to downtown Fort Worth.

Then there's TRE like majicdonjuan said and which I was completely forgetting about. If we wanted to do something different we could just use that line and turn it into light rail for much less or just see what we could do for it to be more efficient and better connected throughout it's route.

[RMFW]

Originally Posted by dollaztx

But the fact is that Arlington is part of the equation. In my opinion Fort Worth vying for this alone would have seem more realistic. Due to it's density, to me the area between Fort Worth and Dallas just seems better suited for light rail due to the many cities and attractions that are along the way. With light rail we could have a stop at West Dallas, Lone Star/Verizon Theater, Six Flags/Cowboys/Rangers, Cooper, Green Oaks, and then kind of follow Lancaster on to downtown Fort Worth.

Then there's TRE like majicdonjuan said and which I was completely forgetting about. If we wanted to do something different we could just use that line and turn it into light rail for much less or just see what we could do for it to be more efficient and better connected throughout it's route.

To me (and this is something I think Schuman mischaracterized in his article), this isn't about creating a high speed link that would take people back and forth between Dallas and Fort Worth. It's about allowing passengers to travel by high speed rail between Houston and Fort Worth in addition to those who would be traveling between Houston and Dallas. In other words, putting together a plan that creates a high speed rail line with direct service to the first-, second-, and fifth-largest cities in the state. Personally, I wouldn't lose any sleep over Arlington not being included on that and think that it would probably be better served by regional commuter or light rail between Fort Worth and, perhaps, dallas. From what I understand, there has been a recent evaluation of the possibility of running the line down the center median of I-30 between Dallas and Fort Worth which would considerably reduce coats over alternative routes through urban areas and that part of what the State is now doing is taking a deeper look at that possibility. But, again, I really haven't seen anything that indicates that what Fort Worth is trying to get done here is jeopardizing in any realistic way to proposed line between Houston and Dallas. Just looking at a possible phase 1b to make a good thing even better.

[dollaztx]

Originally Posted by RMFW

To me (and this is something I think Schuman mischaracterized in his article), this isn't about creating a high speed link that would take people back and forth between Dallas and Fort Worth. It's about allowing passengers to travel by high speed rail between Houston and Fort Worth in addition to those who would be traveling between Houston and Dallas. In other words, putting together a plan that creates a high speed rail line with direct service to the first-, second-, and fifth-largest cities in the state. Personally, I wouldn't lose any sleep over Arlington not being included on that and think that it would probably be better served by regional commuter or light rail between Fort Worth and, perhaps, dallas. From what I understand, there has been a recent evaluation of the possibility of running the line down the center median of I-30 between Dallas and Fort Worth which would considerably reduce coats over alternative routes through urban areas and that part of what the State is now doing is taking a deeper look at that possibility. But, again, I really haven't seen anything that indicates that what Fort Worth is trying to get done here is jeopardizing in any realistic way to proposed line between Houston and Dallas. Just looking at a possible phase 1b to make a good thing even better.

You have some valid points and yes taking Arlington off would make the proposal more realistic. I practically live in Arlington so this would benefit me personally, but I wouldn't want to see high-speed rail falter once more. I think going for a phase one first from Dallas to Houston is far riskier. A phase two from Dallas to Fort Worth can always be added when the funding has been secured.

[Jack Lance]

Is Houston going to be the only stop on the southern end? Do you guys really think that HSR is just going to zip past The Woodlands XOM's new campus and IAH without a single stop before DT Houston? I highly doubt that