Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If the problem cannot be duplicated it may not be a good answer, but you can't just create an answer that's incorrect out-of-the-blue! They're trying to find the problem. Multiple sources are trying, including the company that was hired by NASA to find the cause of the Columbia tradegy. Others are invited to find Toyota's problem. Can't find it yet. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe never. What in hell do you want them to do...other than try to find the cause?
There are emergency procedures for many things. Knowing ahead of time how to be prepared for an emergency can make a huge difference.
What did I expect them to do? ......maybe give warning to their customers that problems have been reported by mulitple people and although they cannot figure out what the problem is, the seriousness of what was reported couldn't be ignored so they are passing on info on what the reported problem is and how to best deal with it if it happens?
Instead, the guvment had to force them to do that....because they were trying to play the sneaky pete like nothing was wrong, leaving their customers to deal with the problem cold, with no knowledge. I mean, I understand, you tell people about potential problems and how to deal with it so it doesn't kill them if it should happen and you'll probably lose $$. What is a bussiness to do in such a situation?
There are emergency procedures for many things. Knowing ahead of time how to be prepared for an emergency can make a huge difference.
What did I expect them to do? ......maybe give warning to their customers that problems have been reported by mulitple people and although they cannot figure out what the problem is, the seriousness of what was reported couldn't be ignored so they are passing on info on what the reported problem is and how to best deal with it if it happens?
Instead, the guvment had to force them to do that....because they were trying to play the sneaky pete like nothing was wrong, leaving their customers to deal with the problem cold, with no knowledge. I mean, I understand, you tell people about potential problems and how to deal with it so it doesn't kill them if it should happen and you'll probably lose $$. What is a bussiness to do in such a situation?
Quite the contrary! What was the decision of the NHTSA? The NHTSA was fully aware of the complaints, the accidents, the investigative and analysis reports...and beyond anything else it was the NHTSA that has the last final say-so on what needs to be done, including alerting the public about a potential problem. The NHTSA found no problem with anything except the all weather floor mats, and it was Toyota that wanted to [also] address a potential "sticky" gas pedal. There has been NO proof that there is a problem with the ECU...though everyone is working around the clock to try to find a problem with it. Do you expect Toyota to alert the public about a problem in the ECU that cannot be found by any agency group?
. Do you expect Toyota to alert the public about a problem in the ECU that cannot be found by any agency group?
I expect Toyota to alert their customers about reported problems that could send them to their deaths, yes.
I agree the NHTSA did fail in their duties, but that does not mean Toyota is innocent. Companies do not have to be told by the government to recall a faulty product.
Quote:
The NHTSA found no problem with anything except the all weather floor mats, and it was Toyota that wanted to [also] address a potential "sticky" gas pedal
I am pretty sure Toyota does not need the NHTSA's premission to fix whatever problem they think needs fixing. Appearntly, it wasn't fixed and probably, wasn't the [only] problem.
How long has Toyato been getting reports of sudden accelartion? How many have reported it?
Last edited by LosingBattle; 02-25-2010 at 09:35 AM..
I expect Toyota to alert their customers about reported problems that could send them to their deaths, yes.
I agree the NHTSA did fail in their duties, but that does not mean Toyota is innocent. Companies do not have to be told by the government to recall a faulty product.
I am pretty sure Toyota does not need the NHTSA's premission to fix whatever problem they think needs fixing. Appearntly, it wasn't fixed and probably, wasn't the [only] problem.
How long has Toyato been getting reports of sudden accelartion? How many have reported it?
You're missing the point entirely. Toyota, nor the NHTSA, believed that the reported problems (beyond all weather floor mats and sticky pedals) could send people to their deaths. That's a fact! All indications then, and well as now, remains that no problem has been found in the ECU nor any other part of the vehicles in question. That's a fact! So, you are suggesting that the car maker tell the public that its vehicles have [further] problems not yet found to be true that could cause UA. Why would any manufacturer say such a thing? Likewise, you are suggesting that the NHTSA tell the public that a car maker's vehicles have [further] problems not yet found to be true that could cause UA. Why would the government's safety regulatory agency say such a thing?
The point is - both Toyota and the NHTSA (as well as outside agencies, e.g. scientists, mechanical engineers, software engineers, etc.) are doing everything they can (working around the clock worldwide) to find out IF there really is another problem. Exponent is working to find a problem. Thus far - no one can find another problem!!!!!!!! They MUST be able to pinpoint the root cause of the problem. Without finding the 'ghost' problem no one can say there's truly a [further] problem beyond the already acknowledged floor mats and sticky pedals that have already been addressed.
You see, you want Toyota and the NHTSA to say there's a problem with the ECU (or whatever part or item you may choose) before ANYONE can PROVE there really is a problem. Sorry, but that's not how things work! If there's a [further] problem it will eventually be found, but until it is found no company (including the goverment's safety agency NHTSA) is going to tell the public (as you suggest they do) that Toyota's vehicles could send people to their deaths. For Toyota to admit to a problem that cannot be found would be stupid and wreckless...and in the case of the NHTSA making such a statement it would be grounds for legal action...because IT WOULD NOT BE TRUE and they CANNOT PROVE IT! Thus far no one can PROVE IT...even though hundreds of engineers and software specialists are trying!!!! Right?
Last edited by highcotton; 02-25-2010 at 11:57 AM..
Toyota hired (that means paid) former NHTSA investigators to get the investigation stopped. Can we say "conflict of interest?"
Quote:
At least four U.S. investigations into unintended acceleration by Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles were ended with the help of former regulators hired by the automaker, warding off possible recalls, court and government records show.
“I think there is going to be a lot of heat on NHTSA over this.”
You have members of the Federal Government (CONGRESS) making hostile remarks, misrepresentations, and accusations about Toyota. Since the Federal Government owns the majority interest in General Motors - can you say "conflict of interest"?
I think you're missing the point entirely. Owners of Toyota's were reporting the problem. I don't care that the cause of the problem was not found. You get enough reports of a problem from enough people, then it's a problem. I think it is rediculous that you don't think average people should have a right to know about life endangering defects.
“I think there is going to be a lot of heat on NHTSA over this.”
You have members of the Federal Government (CONGRESS) making hostile remarks, misrepresentations, and accusations about Toyota. Since the Federal Government owns the majority interest in General Motors - can you say "conflict of interest"?
So who would you have take care of the problem? Clearly, Toyota was not going to do it on their own, they had to be ordered to do so. We've already seen that same Congress making hostile remarks toward GM. In addition, you are misrepresenting the government stake in GM. The feds took over the "bad assets" of GM as a part of the bankruptcy judgement. It isn't like they bought 60% of the stock of the functional part of GM. So, while you can say that they own whatever percentage (got a link for your 60%?), it isn't entirely accurate.
And there should be some heat on NHTSA over this. A lot of heat.
Last edited by stanman13; 02-25-2010 at 02:56 PM..
I think you're missing the point entirely. Owners of Toyota's were reporting the problem. I don't care that the cause of the problem was not found.You get enough reports of a problem from enough people, then it's a problem. I think it is rediculous that you don't think average people should have a right to know about life endangering defects.
Do you sell Toyota's for a living or something?
No, I have no connection with Toyota whatsoever.
What you fail to understand is that neither Toyota or the NHTSA even know if there is a problem. Neither have been able to find one with the ECU. Before they can say there's a problem, they have to KNOW that there is a problem.
So, how many reports of a problem should there be before the car maker alerts the public that there is a problem? And, how many reports of a problem should there be before the NHTSA alerts the public that there is a problem? In addition, how many reports of a problem should there be before [both] the car maker and the NHTSA starts looking for the cause of the problem and finds a solution for the problem?
Your turn!
Last edited by highcotton; 02-25-2010 at 03:13 PM..
What you fail to understand is that neither Toyota or the NHTSA even know if there is a problem. Before they can say there's a problem, they have to KNOW that there is a problem.
Your turn!
You're telling me that a couple thousand Toyota owners reporting that their car suddenly accelarates by itself doesn't signify a problem? Are you really saying that? Because it sure sounds like it.
I think, what you failed to understand is that neither Toyota or the NHTSA has found the cause of the problem, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a problem. Obviously, the folks in DC think there is a big problem, but I guess they are just on the take and the problem couldn't possibly be real.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
