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Why isn't there a government witch hunt against GM? Oh, I forgot, because the UAW is in bed with the democrats, and <gasp> Toyota employees aren't forced to pay extortion money...er, I mean dues.....to a union.
Also, it could be because it is actually shocking that there's a recall on Toyota vehicles...with GM, recalls and quality issues are pretty much a regular occurrence.
I see a child died last year as a result of those faulty windows. That should be enough to have people up in arms...oh, I forgot, the UAW got their extortion money from the paychecks of the people that built those GM cars, so its not a big deal.
Are you being sarcastic? There are several very real engineers on this forum including myself. Plenty of expert opinion to be found here and just because you don't agree with all of it does not make it false.
People making a fuss over Toyota, for what? Get a life.
All your rambling can stop right here. I know some of nutwingers are going to get on the defensive now.
Next thing, some will say...they're lying...
This says nothing.
1) Toyota didn't start selling vehicles in large numbers in the states until the early to mid 80s, therefore they will obviously have fewer recalls. How far do these recalls go back, the 1960s?
2) Until the last decade, Toyota has historically had fewer models than the Big Three. At its peak, GM had about 80 different vehicles. Statistically, more vehicles and more market share = more recalls.
3) This only quantifies total # of recalls, many of which are minor and not worth noting. How many of those recalls were serious defects that affected driveability or safety of the vehicle? A better comparison would be to tally the total number of vehicles recalled for serious defects per manufacturer.
Until you can answer those questions, this comparison is bunk.
1) Toyota didn't start selling vehicles in large numbers in the states until the early to mid 80s, therefore they will obviously have fewer recalls. How far do these recalls go back, the 1960s?
2) Until the last decade, Toyota has historically had fewer models than the Big Three. At its peak, GM had about 80 different vehicles. Statistically, more vehicles and more market share = more recalls.
3) This only quantifies total # of recalls, many of which are minor and not worth noting. How many of those recalls were serious defects that affected driveability or safety of the vehicle? A better comparison would be to tally the total number of vehicles recalled for serious defects per manufacturer.
Until you can answer those questions, this comparison is bunk.
Very well said. The question isn't how many recalls a car has had, but deadly recalls (like Toyota). My Corvette Z06 had a steering column lock recall, Lotus had an ECU dump recall...minor things like this can't be compared to the unintended acceleration found in Toyotas.
Deepcynic, if you're looking for a daily driver, the best choice from the ones you listed is the Ford Fusion. My DD is a '10 Ford Fusion sport, with the 263 hp engine and full sync system. For long trips there isn't anything that could be better and it never gets boring. Don't get a Matrix or anything like that, you'll probably end up regretting it.
For what it's worth, I'm not a "backyard" engineer, I'm a real engineer who has been working with large scale vehicle systems for years and, I would argue, understands vehicle software as well as anyone else on this forum. The reason why I warn about the dangers of Toyotas is because I care.
If only dangerous recalls count, it seems the "Big 3" has had their share of cars that could catch fire...
Or exploding gas tanks in a collision (Pinto)...
I don't think anyone is disputing that there's been some problems with Toyotas lately, but the truth is that recalls, even serious ones, have happened to all makes and models of vehicles...it seems this Toyota recall is being blown up into a big media and government frenzy compared to past deadly recalls on domestic vehicles. There does seem to be some sort of witch hunt, and given the fact that we have a democratic president and a democratic Congress, and the democrats are in bed with the UAW, it doesn't seem to be much of a stretch to call it a witch hunt.
^ Those include recalls from far enough back that Toyota wasn't even for sale here in the states.
uh huh..... (Bring on the excuses. We've been waiting)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT
As said, everyone has their faults. I would personally stick with the car and let them work through the fix. The biggest issue that I have with the whole thing is how it was handled from day one. Toyota and to a lesser extent Honda keep their reps sterling by covering up known problems and not issueing recalls unless forced to do so. Toyota tried to dance around the issue (still are to an extent) and are getting exactly what they deserve in the end.
Toyota quality has been slipping the past few years regardless of the gas pedal/sensor issue. I still think they are higher up the reliability chain then some of the other options, but they aren't the kings of reliability they used to be and have been coasting on a fabricated reputation.
With all that said, if you are angry enough to take a financial loss on a relatively new vehicle, then go for it, I would just caution that the grass may not be much greener in other pastures, especially in the compact market. Just don't think you are sticking it to them in anyway.
Another piece of advice may be to find a different dealer. Toyota dealer's are getting swamped right now and the shops are having trouble keeping up. The dealer generally has more of an impact on a customer's experience than the nameplate. If you're dealer isn't giving you the level of service you expect, find one that will.
Sensible post.....
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