Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
AMTRAK is NOT expensive. Coach from Boston to SF is something like $220.
Wait! Sure you didn't drop a zero? Philly to NY is $50 - one way. People say Amtrak loses money because it has to serve unprofitable routes and yet they lose money even in the northeast corridor. What does it take?
Wait! Sure you didn't drop a zero? Philly to NY is $50 - one way. People say Amtrak loses money because it has to serve unprofitable routes and yet they lose money even in the northeast corridor. What does it take?
$220 is close.. One way.. I could book this trip now for $232. So, I'll give them the $12 and concur that 'about $220' is accurate.
The problem..
I can book a one-way flight for $124.
The flight takes 11 hours. Boston to Newark to SF.
The train takes 79 hours. Depart Boston at 11:55am on the 20th of March, arrive Chicago at 9:45am on the 21st, depart Chicago at 2pm and arrive in San Francisco at 4:10pm on March 23rd.
$220 is close.. One way.. I could book this trip now for $232. So, I'll give them the $12 and concur that 'about $220' is accurate.
The problem..
I can book a one-way flight for $124.
The flight takes 11 hours. Boston to Newark to SF.
The train takes 79 hours. Depart Boston at 11:55am on the 20th of March, arrive Chicago at 9:45am on the 21st, depart Chicago at 2pm and arrive in San Francisco at 4:10pm on March 23rd.
Once airplanes became safer and certainly after the introduction of jets trains lost any advantage for long distance travel. Businessmen were the first to switch from trains to planes and soon pretty much everyone else followed. Long distance trains quickly became huge albatross around private railroads necks and they began dropping service quickly as the ICC would let them.
The exception then and how were trains that were more of an excursion/vacation rather than fastest (California Zephyr), and for travel that persons for various reasons wanted to take a train instead of bus or fly.
Long distance trains are "slow" because for one thing federal and union labor laws limit crew working hours. So at some point a train must stop and take on a fresh crew, at least for the locomotive.
Amtrak long distance trains are slow because it owns little ROW outside the NEC. Thus must rely upon tracking agreements with various other railroads (usually always freight), and they usually state that freight trains go before Amtrak.
I traveled Amtrak from California to Kansas City last summer and had a roomette. I had traveled by coach multi-day about 14 years previous so this made for much improved sleeping, even if the roomette is indeed quite small. Meals at the "restaurant" (not the cafe car downstairs) was included so you have to factor that in, and they were very good meals at that.
Here is the thing, however: I got the ride for free because I had travel points from a credit card (Chase bank I think, it was called the Amtrak card but I believe they no longer offer that program). Sometimes Amtrak has deals. For the '01 trip I had some kind of pass where I could travel anywhere in the U.S. with any 3 stops. I saw family in Chicago, Denver, and Spokane.
I like traveling on train; I think you meet interesting people, and the views can be wonderful. I like the space and freedom to roam about. BUT if you are a solo traveler, beware of theft. Sad but true. On the return trip my camera was stolen. Having to replace it made it no longer a free trip, and it made me cynical. I would like to do another train trip sometime but probably not solo due to this experience.
PS: One thing people like about the train is that it is less stressful than plane travel. It takes longer of course but it still has that kind of romantic feeling for the history buffs or people who just appreciate some olden ways. If you are traveling for more than one night and can afford the roomette, it is worth it.
IIRC in the old days when something "happened" on a train it would either radio ahead for local LE and or signal by whistle blows there was an emergency. No one was allowed to leave the train until LE boarded and afterwards until they said so.
Thing is about a moving train at speed is no one is going to be getting off, so if something is stolen or happens and the crew is made aware at once it does sort of make for a captive place to search. Again in the old days that is exactly what happened; but civil "rights" were less of an issue to the point LE could search the train and or persons (and their belongings) without a warrant.
Wait! Sure you didn't drop a zero? Philly to NY is $50 - one way. People say Amtrak loses money because it has to serve unprofitable routes and yet they lose money even in the northeast corridor. What does it take?
Amtrak actually makes money on the Northeast Corridor if you only include operating costs and not infrastructure maintenance costs.
Long story short Amtrak knows (or has found out) what private RRs knew before they went bankrupt; long distance train service is *NOT* profitable.
As have stated previously freight is what paid and pays a RRs bills. When freight traffic declined thanks to motor vehicles RRs had to find other ways to subsidize money losing train service. They couldn't so one by one long and even middle distance train service declined and eventually went away. Commuter rail service to some extent survived and that is often what local governments picked up in the wreckage of a RR's bankruptcy.
Amtrak knows and wants to get rid of some long distance trains. But soon as word leaks out some grandmother in Podunk Town, USA contacts her elected officials in Washington to "lean" on Amtrak, so the thing never happens. Thus Amtrak finds itself exactly where the private passenger railroads were in the 1950's and 1960's; having to provide revenue losing service basically by *force*.
The flight takes 11 hours. Boston to Newark to SF.
The train takes 79 hours. Depart Boston at 11:55am on the 20th of March, arrive Chicago at 9:45am on the 21st, depart Chicago at 2pm and arrive in San Francisco at 4:10pm on March 23rd.
The train looks good just to avoid the insanity at three airports, the enraged passengers having gone through TSA sitting next to me, lost luggage, and the horrendous airline food (if there is any).
Long story short Amtrak knows (or has found out) what private RRs knew before they went bankrupt; long distance train service is *NOT* profitable.
As have stated previously freight is what paid and pays a RRs bills. When freight traffic declined thanks to motor vehicles RRs had to find other ways to subsidize money losing train service. They couldn't so one by one long and even middle distance train service declined and eventually went away. Commuter rail service to some extent survived and that is often what local governments picked up in the wreckage of a RR's bankruptcy.
Amtrak knows and wants to get rid of some long distance trains. But soon as word leaks out some grandmother in Podunk Town, USA contacts her elected officials in Washington to "lean" on Amtrak, so the thing never happens. Thus Amtrak finds itself exactly where the private passenger railroads were in the 1950's and 1960's; having to provide revenue losing service basically by *force*.
I've said what you said above many times. There's a reason why the U.S. freight railroads are profitable and most passenger rail (and pretty much all transit) services in the world, not just in the U.S., require a subsidy. Freight can literally be packed into a train like sardines, and it doesn't complain if it's moving only 40 MPH and periodically stops in the middle of nowhere.
I personally would much rather see the U.S. government subsidize rural intercity bus service than try continuing the folly of funding low frequency, long distance intercity rail routes in low population corridors. It just doesn't make sense financially. (On a related note, I'm also not a fan of the Essential Air Service program, which essentially provides limited commercial air service on small planes in small markets on what are usually puddle-jumper flights, just to appease the rural areas. That service, like Amtrak's long distance routes that aren't in high population corridors, has a very high per capita cost.)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
