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Do you think the Manson cult members who killed Sharon Tate and the others over those nights were manipulated or was it strictly free will?
If they were manipulated, are they still responsible for what they did?
In my opinion, weak people can definitely be manipulated. That doesn't remove their responsibility for their own actions. If anything, it makes them more dangerous as they can be used as human weapons.
I don't advocate torture in gen-pop or the death penalty for such individuals, but I advocate keeping them out of society for the protection of the general public.
Read this a few months ago. It was also a TV Movie. Cinnamon Brown was on Oprah later on.
Interesting looking book. I may order it. That said, There is a difference between a 14 year old kid manipulated by her own dad and the member of the Manson family that the parole board just agreed to release in Cali.
It's hard to tell. From the "Manson Family" thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin
Most of the Manson girls were born into middle and upper middle class homes. These people had something evil inside them to go to a stranger's home and do what they did.
The same with Charles "Tex" Watson. It was inside them before they met Manson, he just help bring it to the surface.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now
"Evil" inside them? I disagree, although many were from well to do families. Most, including Leslie Van Houten, were emotionally neglected kids who received little attention from their parents. I'm sure the neglect, combined with drug abuse, made them very vulnerable to anyone who appeared even remotely interested in them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
I think you're right. And that line between "good" and "evil" is pretty thin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn
Plus they met up with Charlie who was a master at manipulation. Perfect storm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359
In Vincent Bugliosi's virtually classic work about the Tate/LaBianca murders, he discusses Manson's ability to manipulate people. Bugliosi listed a series of classic "manipulative" techniques that Manson used on his followers that have worked on scores of people over the decades. Those techniques included isolation, rewards, use of personal charisma, charm, use of drugs, and punishments. For the male followers in the group one major reward was simply sex with one of the women.
What is very intriguing though is that Bugliosi after listing all these techniques states that he believed Manson had "manipulative powers" that went beyond just using these techniques. He believed he had some power above and beyond these classic methods that psychologists and criminologists could not objectively quantify.
Because of that, Bugliosi never felt that most of the girls involved like Van Houten and Krenwinkel were 100% for responsible for their actions. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree. However, Bugliosi would support allowing them parole from prison at this point.
Doesn't our military do that? What I mean is that we start off with all the team player stuff and then we practice shooting at human shaped targets. We are also taught to hate our enemies and how killing is saving others on our team.
I know that it is necessary to maintain our way of life. But we do try to distance ourselves from the actual act and justify our position.
Fisheye is very close to being off topic. Military are not manipulated to murder. They sign up for the job and follow orders.
As for really being "manipulated"...I sometimes see this as a slippery slope of being in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and hanging out with the wrong people. Sadly....I worked with many "kids" age 19, 20...who were in gangs, and due to peer pressure killed someone for status, and ended up with a 20 year sentence in prison. Senseless. For everyone.
Fisheye is very close to being off topic. Military are not manipulated to murder. They sign up for the job and follow orders.
As for really being "manipulated"...I sometimes see this as a slippery slope of being in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and hanging out with the wrong people. Sadly....I worked with many "kids" age 19, 20...who were in gangs, and due to peer pressure killed someone for status, and ended up with a 20 year sentence in prison. Senseless. For everyone.
Sorry jasper12,
I was thinking of the days when we did have the draft. But I do think there is still a correlation if you look at peer pressure and 'team work' as similar terms. I also don't think that many soldiers sign up to kill somebody – there are those that think of it as a job and the benefits that they will receive. But; I'll leave at at that. Sorry again.
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