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Getting your *** kicked by someone punching you in the face allows you to use deadly force to protect yourself....
OOPS!!!!
Waiting for you to make a legitimate argument or point... < crickets chirping >
It does not allow it when you provoked the *** kicking.
Still waiting on the testimony from the witness that supposedly saw Zimmerman trying to flee from martin. I did a quick google search and all I keep finding are more witness accounts stating:
- that Zimmerman was holding Martin down
- that the girlfriend heard Martin say "get off" on the phone
- that the entirety of the struggle took place on grass (not sidewalk)
- that Zimmerman "didn't appear hurt" as he walked away
- that it was Martin who was crying out for help
Yes there are witnesses who will probably support Zimmerman's claims as well. And there are 90 seconds not accounted for by phone calls or police presence.
It does not allow it when you provoked the *** kicking.
Still waiting on the testimony from the witness that supposedly saw Zimmerman trying to flee from martin. I did a quick google search and all I keep finding are more witness accounts stating:
- that Zimmerman was holding Martin down
- that the girlfriend heard Martin say "get off" on the phone
- that the entirety of the struggle took place on grass (not sidewalk)
- that Zimmerman "didn't appear hurt" as he walked away
- that it was Martin who was crying out for help
Yes there are witnesses who will probably support Zimmerman's claims as well. And there are 90 seconds not accounted for by phone calls or police presence.
This is why there needs to be a trial.
The man that was there nearby told the police that Martin was on top and that Zimmerman was begging for Martin to stop.
Provoking a fight is irrelevant if Zimmerman was on his back getting the crap kicked out of him an begging as the first witness originally stated.
That first witness statement and then physical evidence is why the police didn't initially charge him.
According to Fox News, witnesses have stated otherwise, as I noted above.
And you still have it backwards, getting your head pushed into the grass (not bashed into sidewalk) is irrelevant if you provoked the fight. You have already forfeited the self defense plea. This is true in every civilized country on the planet. The uncivilized ones too most likely.
By ALL accounts the two wrestled before Zimmerman shot Martin. I think all of the witness accounts will cancel each other out once it's stated that each guy was at one point on top of the other.
One more thing we should all agree on is there is far more evidence known but not released to the public. The police most certainly DID want to charge him. The Lead investigator did NOT believe Zimmerman's story and was ultimately (and suspiciously) removed from the case.
The man that was there nearby told the police that Martin was on top and that Zimmerman was begging for Martin to stop.
Provoking a fight is irrelevant if Zimmerman was on his back getting the crap kicked out of him an begging as the first witness originally stated.
That first witness statement and then physical evidence is why the police didn't initially charge him.
If I believe someone is following me and is menacing me, would I have the right under Florida law to stop that person, take them to the ground and disable them until they can longer follow or menace me?
Or does that right to not have to retreat and to stop the person who I believe constitutes a threat to me only apply if I'm carrying a gun?
Let's say I do own a gun and someone exhibits the same behavior again and I shoot them. If they beg for me to stop but are still not disabled, am I at that point obligated to stop shooting?
Clearly your 'theory' of events that nights falls within FL 776.041. Zimmerman couldn't retreat (he was pinned), he never fought back (no injuries on Martin), he was screaming for help (which is a communication of intent to withdraw/terminate use of force).
I challenge you to provide the relevant law, otherwise you're misinformed (or lying). All FL self defense laws operate off of reasonable fear not 'following'. Even stalking requires more than just following someone.
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
Witnesses also say Zimmerman was on top and that Trayvon was the one screaming for help. No need to go past section 2 above if that is the case. The lack of Martin's blood on Zimmerman doesn't support your theory that Zimmerman was pinned when he fired.
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
Witnesses also say Zimmerman was on top and that Trayvon was the one screaming for help. No need to go past section 2 above if that is the case. The lack of Martin's blood on Zimmerman doesn't support your theory that Zimmerman was pinned when he fired.
You left something out...
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
Initial statements put Martin on top and Zimmerman begging for him to stop...
And indicate Martin did not stop...
This clearly is the lynchpin of the entire case.
They show Martin was on top, or fail to disprove that and it is finished.
The witnesses have all changes their story which leaves the shot trajectory evidence and Zimmerman's story...
All the defense has to show is that Martin was on top, which the witness (guy that lived nearby) said in his initial statement and then the photos of trauma to not only Zimmerman's face but back of the head which clearly corroborates his "getting his head smashed into the ground story."
It does not allow it when you provoked the *** kicking.
Still waiting on the testimony from the witness that supposedly saw Zimmerman trying to flee from martin. I did a quick google search and all I keep finding are more witness accounts stating:
- that Zimmerman was holding Martin down
- that the girlfriend heard Martin say "get off" on the phone
- that the entirety of the struggle took place on grass (not sidewalk)
- that Zimmerman "didn't appear hurt" as he walked away
- that it was Martin who was crying out for help
Yes there are witnesses who will probably support Zimmerman's claims as well. And there are 90 seconds not accounted for by phone calls or police presence.
This is why there needs to be a trial.
You must have Google set to 'Exclude all witness accounts supportive of George Zimmerman's statements.'
Saying that TM attacked GZ is too far of a leap to take the rest of your theories seriously. All evidence shows that GZ got out of his truck armed with a gun looking for TM behind a row of apartments. The prosecution could rest it's case there and leave it to the defense to prove that GZ wasn't in the act of stalking TM. If the defense can't do that then GZ will be put away for 25 years.
I other words, you have nothing. Thanks for confirming what I suspected.
If I was a juror, I would take all information from Trayvon's girlfriend, with a grain of salt. She is a teen. This was a cell phone call, and I have no doubt this girl has had "coaching" sessions with people who have an agenda.
So...INMO...the entire contents of her testimony is a wash.
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
Thanks for quoting something I already quoted and linked to. I wish you would have taken the time to read it because it undermines your point. The last word in that sentence is unless, which implies the sentence is conditional on neither (a) or (b) being true.
Quote:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
Zimmerman was on his back, pinned, losing the fight with a broken nose and a bloody head before he fired the shot. If Zimmerman was the aggressor, clearly both (a) and (b) apply.
Quote:
Witnesses also say Zimmerman was on top and that Trayvon was the one screaming for help. No need to go past section 2 above if that is the case. The lack of Martin's blood on Zimmerman doesn't support your theory that Zimmerman was pinned when he fired.
Witnesses say after the shot Zimmerman was on top, 2 witnesses say that before the shot Martin was on Zimmerman. 1 witness saw Zimmerman pleading with him to help, no witness saw Martin screaming. Again, just making up random statements doesn't a case make.
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