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Let's suppose that both parents were pedophiles who touched no child except their own. Is that a good reason for the parents to be blown to bits with shotguns?
This discussion about molestation seems to imply that if the men were molested as children, then it is somewhat excusable that they murdered their wealthy parents before lying about the murders and indulging in a spending spree.
Are there any circumstances where adults who were molested as children can justifiably shoot the molester?
This abuse occurred in the 1970s and 1980s and that was a different time period. What options were there back then to report the abuse? Many kids today report molestation and they aren't believed. The abuse would have been a mitigating factor in their sentencing. I don't think anyone has suggested they should get a not guilty verdict.
Yes, especially boys. The blaming the victim thing has lifted a lot for girls, although I still see that occasionally. But there's still a stigma about sexually abused boys, and many can't face that. Long term abuse, especially by your main caregiver, does terrible things to a psyche. No child comes out of that unscathed, and some are more emotionally scarred than others.
Scientists have proven that long term abuse during childhood actually changes the kid's brain in a way that can be seen on scans. It's not fake, and it's not merely an excuse. It's a physical change that affects the way the victim's brain works. Now whether the brains of these particular young men were affected enough to excuse murder, I don't know. That has to be left up to people who have more knowledge on the subject than I. But I am willing to at least consider that the damage done was bad enough that their punishment should have been lighter.
Heck, full grown adults that are perfectly normal have been excused for heat of the moment murders, like finding a spouse in bed with someone else. Why wouldn't we have some sympathy for kids with scarred brains, whose brains were scarred by the very people they killed?
I don't think that men who are angry with their parents, regardless of what the parents did, get a pass for blowing their parent's brains out. That is not justified, regardless of what they suffered as children.
I think they are no longer a risk to society, but how can anyone be sure that they will not use shotguns to even the score with someone else?
Battered women use this defense all the time. "I was abused" and it sometimes works, just ask Mary Winkler. I guess if women can use this defense, men can too. I don't see the difference.
As for them being dangerous, I believe the only people they've ever been violent towards were their own parents.
Yes, especially boys. The blaming the victim thing has lifted a lot for girls, although I still see that occasionally. But there's still a stigma about sexually abused boys, and many can't face that. Long term abuse, especially by your main caregiver, does terrible things to a psyche. No child comes out of that unscathed, and some are more emotionally scarred than others.
Scientists have proven that long term abuse during childhood actually changes the kid's brain in a way that can be seen on scans. It's not fake, and it's not merely an excuse. It's a physical change that affects the way the victim's brain works. Now whether the brains of these particular young men were affected enough to excuse murder, I don't know. That has to be left up to people who have more knowledge on the subject than I. But I am willing to at least consider that the damage done was bad enough that their punishment should have been lighter.
Heck, full grown adults that are perfectly normal have been excused for heat of the moment murders, like finding a spouse in bed with someone else. Why wouldn't we have some sympathy for kids with scarred brains, whose brains were scarred by the very people they killed?
The shotgun murders happened in 1989. Sheldon Kennedy, molested by his hockey coach, came forward in 1996.
That is seven years apart, but still close enough such that culture was unchanged and there was no social awareness about the frequency of men molesting male children in 1996. The Menendez men used a shot gun to bring awareness to an important issue, Sheldon Kennedy did not (link).
A heat of the moment spontaneous, emotional, spousal homicide is not the same as a prolonged grooming and molestation murder.
If deviant treatment of a child could be revealed on brain scans, wouldn't brain scans be used as a deviant behavior predictor? It's long been known that victims of molestation can grow up to be molesters. I'm very curious about this idea. Do you have a link to research on abnormal brain scans in victims of grooming & molestation during childhood?
I can't find the one I read a few years ago but found a couple more sites. I haven't completely read these yet but they appear to have the info, including the fact that abuse by main caregivers is much more damaging than abuse by a hockey coach.
I can't find the one I read a few years ago but found a couple more sites. I haven't completely read these yet but they appear to have the info, including the fact that abuse by main caregivers is much more damaging than abuse by a hockey coach.
"In a study published in the same journal in 1998, Teicher and his colleagues used brain scans to compare 15 child victims of severe abuse with 15 healthy volunteers. The left cortex of the abused group was underdeveloped. Likewise, studies by Dr. Douglas Bremner of Yale and Dr. Murray Stein of the University of California at San Diego have found that the left hippocampus is smaller in abuse victims."
I'm guessing that it is referencing this study ? :
"Rigorous exclusion criteria were applied to select subjects in whom differences in brain morphology could be most clearly attributable to childhood sexual abuse. They included neurological disorders, medical disorder affecting growth or development, treatment with corticosteroids, pregnancy, past or present alcohol/substance abuse, premature birth or complications during mother’s pregnancy or delivery, in utero exposure to alcohol or drugs, or a history of physical abuse. Exclusion criteria also included exposure to any other forms of preceding or subsequent trauma (e.g., motor vehicle accidents, natural disasters, fires, near drowning, witnessing abuse, animal attacks, gang violence, robbery). These criteria excluded 95% of the 732 initial respondents to our advertisement. Twenty-eight percent of the subjects who completed all of the prescreening instruments (N=564) had a self-reported history of childhood sexual abuse, but only 9.5% of the prescreened sample had a history of childhood sexual abuse unaccompanied by exposure to other forms of abuse.
...
Using these criteria, 26 abused women (mean age=20.0 years, range=18–22) and 17 healthy female comparison subjects (mean age=19.4 years, range=18–22) were enrolled."
And did 'nt their own grandmother get on the stand and tell the court that their grandfather used to beat her in front of their kids ? so Jose thought this was the way to control his family . I know it often runs in families . Jose wanted to project an image to the world that his family was perfect , in the meantime he was having multiple affairs on kitty . I remember the one niece telling Kitty that lyle had something to tell her and he told Kitty that Jose was messing with him and she sent the niece home and called her a liar thank God the nieces mother lyles aunt believed lyle and she also said that they were no longer welcome in jose and kittys home . Her husband and Jose often came to words over that . The niece said she was glad that her mom and dad believed lyle was telling the truth but they could not tell the authorities or Jose would cut their family funds off . It seems as though Joses dad put the money that he left behind for everyone in Jose's hands and he was the executor of his familys estate and he would use that to punish anyone in the family who went against him .I think Jose and Kitty were twisted and they were bullies and married for convience and for name only .How could the neighbors not know really ? I mean come on when you live next to someone for as long as those people did surely you notice when something is not right ?
And did 'nt their own grandmother get on the stand and tell the court that their grandfather used to beat her in front of their kids ? so Jose thought this was the way to control his family . I know it often runs in families . Jose wanted to project an image to the world that his family was perfect , in the meantime he was having multiple affairs on kitty . I remember the one niece telling Kitty that lyle had something to tell her and he told Kitty that Jose was messing with him and she sent the niece home and called her a liar thank God the nieces mother lyles aunt believed lyle and she also said that they were no longer welcome in jose and kittys home . Her husband and Jose often came to words over that . The niece said she was glad that her mom and dad believed lyle was telling the truth but they could not tell the authorities or Jose would cut their family funds off . It seems as though Joses dad put the money that he left behind for everyone in Jose's hands and he was the executor of his familys estate and he would use that to punish anyone in the family who went against him .I think Jose and Kitty were twisted and they were bullies and married for convience and for name only .How could the neighbors not know really ? I mean come on when you live next to someone for as long as those people did surely you notice when something is not right ?
There were enough twisted things going on in that family that it's not a huge stretch to believe that Jose molested his sons. I think as young men, they got far less sympathy than they would have, if they'd been young women or teenaged girls. And there are still people in our society who don't believe that young boys can be molested, too.
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