Pan Am (doctor, San Francisco, Miami, documentaries)
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Originally Posted by tamiznluv Oh no, Captain Bill! (done in the SNL voice) You HAVE to keep watching this show and critiquing it for us! I am enthralled with your input and real knowledge. I am enjoying your posts more than anything I have ever read here on C-D in all these years.
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by sayulita: Ditto!! Captain Bill, please keep watching and posting here. You have a unique perspective and so much to tell us about the glory years of Pan Am and flying in general. I'll send you popcorn and martinis if it will help you get through the shows this season! Just don't leave us!
Ok, and thank you.
I'll keep watching and commenting. I was getting a little concerned that my comments could get in the way of others enjoying the show. So if you can enjoy the show, and at the same time not get upset with the show because of my comments, then I can approach it in the manner of just straight forward critique and education.
Instead of popcorn and martinis maybe you could just translate the mumbling for me.
The many years sitting in the cockpit with the high pitch of the jet engines is hard on the ears and most of us develop a high end hearing loss.
So when people don't enunciate clearly, like these actors at times, and the new detective shows, it is very difficult to understand what they're saying.
It's a diction trend that seemed to start with the detective shows last year.
Here's a link to 3 videos with former flight attendants that explain their job very well. They are worth watching. The Real Stewardesses Of Pan Am, Pt. 1 - The Real Stewardesses Of Pan Am - Pan Am - ABC.com (http://beta.abc.go.com/shows/pan-am/real-stewardesses/part-1 - broken link)
They show some actual photos of the uniform they wore in 1963, and photos of the new uniforms that replaced those a few years later, where they had a choice of brown or blue uniforms to wear, and the Bowler type hats. Some would choose which color to wear depending on their mood on that day.
Below is a comment made on that site by a Pan Am Stewardess. As I said before, I didn't know when they had weight checks because I had never seen them happen. Apparently they were done at certain times of the month, or when they came in for recurrent training; but as this lady states, not before the flight.
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I was a Pam Am stewardess in 1967. I didn't care for the show and hope the details will improve. The captain seemed VERY young, the women's hair styles were way too long, the service was incorrect, and the serving uniforms were wrong. There was no weigh-in prior to the flight.
I understand the need for back stories for each of the characters, but maybe a bit of back story about how they were hired, the training process, how they lived, etc., would be just as exciting.
I was overwhelmed by attention from men from day one of training (from international playboys and political exiles to cab drivers) , the former stewardesses who were teachers were very mean.
"Safety training" in a swimsuit in the hotel pool was ridiculous and funny. We watched the Pam Am TV ads that "sold" us as
"We interview 50,000 girls a year and hire 15 a week" and
"Our girls know their way around the world the way other girls know their way around the block," and laughed ourselves silly!
There is a TV show in the Pan Am stewardess experience, it's a fun, sexy, glamorous, exciting story, I just hope the TV show finds that story.
I'll keep watching and commenting. I was getting a little concerned that my comments could get in the way of others enjoying the show. So if you can enjoy the show, and at the same time not get upset with the show because of my comments, then I can approach it in the manner of just straight forward critique and education.
Instead of popcorn and martinis maybe you could just translate the mumbling for me.
The many years sitting in the cockpit with the high pitch of the jet engines is hard on the ears and most of us develop a high end hearing loss.
So when people don't enunciate clearly, like these actors at times, and the new detective shows, it is very difficult to understand what they're saying.
It's a diction trend that seemed to start with the detective shows last year.
Here's a link to 3 videos with former flight attendants that explain their job very well. They are worth watching. The Real Stewardesses Of Pan Am, Pt. 1 - The Real Stewardesses Of Pan Am - Pan Am - ABC.com (http://beta.abc.go.com/shows/pan-am/real-stewardesses/part-1 - broken link)
They show some actual photos of the uniform they wore in 1963, and photos of the new uniforms that replaced those a few years later, where they had a choice of brown or blue uniforms to wear, and the Bowler type hats. Some would choose which color to wear depending on their mood on that day.
Below is a comment made on that site by a Pan Am Stewardess. As I said before, I didn't know when they had weight checks because I had never seen them happen. Apparently they were done at certain times of the month, or when they came in for recurrent training; but as this lady states, not before the flight.
You are giving us so much information that is really helpful. Honestly, it just adds to the entertainment value of the show, knowing that what we are seeing was perhaps not "real". I certainly appreciate reading your posts. Outstanding. Thank you.
As much as I enjoy Capt Bills commentary remember one thing......if BILL wrote the script and it was 100% accurate, the show would be [as my flight instructor described it] hours upon hours upon hours of sheer boredom punctuated by SECONDS of ultimate Terror.
As much as I enjoy Capt Bills commentary remember one thing......if BILL wrote the script and it was 100% accurate, the show would be [as my flight instructor described it] hours upon hours upon hours of sheer boredom punctuated by SECONDS of ultimate Terror.
Commeon dyni, you are getting crabby like Len!! Bill didn't write the script, (I assume) and he is correcting our, the public's, view of the tv show. Most people have no idea what the truth about flying Pan Am is, so it's great to have someone who does know. At least from the cockpit's view.
I agree with Bill, it would be great to have a Pan Am FA of old posting here too.
I like "stewardess" better than FA. "Stewardess" invokes a mental image of a pretty, young female. FA could be anything and has been!!!
As much as I enjoy Capt Bills commentary remember one thing......if BILL wrote the script and it was 100% accurate, the show would be [as my flight instructor described it] hours upon hours upon hours of sheer boredom punctuated by SECONDS of ultimate Terror.
But I would only write in the seconds of sheer terror
And I agree, it doesn't have to be 100% accurate.
With the "passenger accosting flight attendant" scene, instead of the co-pilot coming back and chastising the FA for stabbing the guy who accosted her, I would have the captain come back and have a stern private conversation with the passenger in the galley. If he refused to come to the galley, I would have the same stern conversation with him at his seat.
One point, when a Captain comes out of the cockpit to deal with a problem we would normally wear our jacket, because the buttoned up jacket appears more authoritative than a short sleeve shirt. If the problem were fairly serious, as in this case, the Captain would probably also wear his hat. It looks more serious, and also makes him look bigger and taller. It provides a psychological advantage.
The captain would let the passenger know in no uncertain terms that you don't touch any of my crew, and you don't interfere with their duties; That his drinks are now cut off and if he causes any more problems with my crew, he will be restrained and we will land and have him arrested in Iceland. The threat of being arrested at an off route country is very effective.
And the police would have met the guy at Paris, and escorted him off the plane. That could become a dramatic scene, with the guy screaming to arrest her; she stabbed me!!!
The flight attendant would be appreciative, and who knows, she could become enamored of the captain, and may be competition for the budding romance between the captain and the FA whom he gave a ride to the airport. file:///C:/Users/ADMINI%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.gif (broken link)
The show was playing on the days when women were raped they were most always accused of being the cause. "Defense attorneys still like to use that strategy".
However, accosting a flight attendant on an airplane is not something any FA, or captain would tolerate. They could have made it much more exciting by keeping the co-pilot in the cockpit and having the captain deal with this.
A confrontation between the captain and the passenger would be much more exciting than the co-pilot chastising the FA. And much more accurate.
And how about this: Instead of showing a brief scene in the cockpit where the pilots are talking about women, have the Purser come in and ask the Captain how the weather will be enroute and at destination.
He could show her a color weather map and explain that there will be some areas of thunderstorms, and there is a chance of fog in Paris so they may have to go to their alternate, which is Brussels.
The co-pilot and engineer would be running their cockpit checks (looking busy)
It's just as brief as the cockpit segment they had;
it involves a little suspense along the way;
it involves the Purser;
and it's more accurate
That type briefing is usually held in the briefing room, but sometimes if the captain has to spend more time in his flight planning he may not be able to do the briefing until he gets on the airplane. At that point he has to do it at the purser's convenience because she is busy getting the cabin ready.
(The women talk doesn’t happen until they’re level in cruise over the ocean during the “hours of boredom” )
I could name any number of situational incidents that would be brief and I think could be made to be exciting, and I believe would add more interest to the show.
One more: An unruly passenger about to create a danger to the crew.
The flight attendant grabs the CO2 fire extinguisher. She points the nozzel toward the passengers feet at the floor and discharges it for about 2 seconds. Then she points it at the face of the passenger and tells him to sit down or "I will freeze your face, then bust your head wide open". He sits down and the copilot or captain come back to restrain him with their "issued" restraints.
We carried several of those extinguishers, and the noise that comes from the nozzle when the trigger is pulled is very loud. That along with the CO2 coming out is very frightening when it's pointed toward you. It has been used several times in that manner and it is very effective.
This scene would show the power that the FA's have and their willingness to protect their passengers from potentially dangerously unruly passengers.
OR, how about a hijacker rushing the cockpit while taxiing out. The flight engineer grabs the gun, perhaps gets shot in the leg. A FA rushes in and hits the hijacker on the head with an object from the galley. The copilot gets up and joins in the struggle, so the three of them subdue him.
In early 1960's, one of my friends was a copilot on another carrier and a hijacker came into the cockpit while they were taxiing out. He got close enough that the copilot could reach him. The copilot grabbed his gun, and the gun went off and shot him in the leg, but he still managed to pull the guy toward him, hit him and get the gun away while the captain was getting the aircraft stopped so he could assist. Together then, they took the guy down and held him until the police arrived.
This show makes you wonder if the government really did try and recruit stewardesses for CIA agents . I was just curious about that part . That one girl who is named bridgett is supposed to be so worldly and yet she asked where Missouri was , really ?, I mean come on . I know this show is supposed to be purely entertainment . But at least try and make things realistic . Im really liking this show though .
My, oh my, Captain, you had me enthralled with your post. I could visualize all that you wrote. I did not know we had terrorists back in the 60's! Was it international or a homegrown sicko who just wanted to go somewhere? I also did not know FAs had that much power. I've always thought of them as waitresses in the sky and waitresses do NOT have that power! I know from years of experience. I loved the case with the fire extinguisher! "Freeze your face off"! LMAO!
pl, I have NO doubt that FAs were spies. Bridget is English. She flies the European flights. I can see her not knowing where Missouri is. Heck, a lot of Americans don't know either in this day and age!
My, oh my, Captain, you had me enthralled with your post. I could visualize all that you wrote. I did not know we had terrorists back in the 60's! Was it international or a homegrown sicko who just wanted to go somewhere? I also did not know FAs had that much power. I've always thought of them as waitresses in the sky and waitresses do NOT have that power! I know from years of experience. I loved the case with the fire extinguisher! "Freeze your face off"! LMAO!
pl, I have NO doubt that FAs were spies. Bridget is English. She flies the European flights. I can see her not knowing where Missouri is. Heck, a lot of Americans don't know either in this day and age!
There were hijackings back in the 50's. The ones from the late 50's until 1970 were mostly in the western hemisphere and many of them were trying to hijack a plane to Cuba. Some were individuals trying to divert Cuban planes to the U.S.
Right after the Bay of Pigs there were some hijackings to Cuba trying to get Cuban exiles out.
During those days pilots were instructed by management to not resist any attempts to hijack their plane to Cuba. They were to head straight for Cuba without any argument if they were hijacked. There were diplomatic procedures already put in place to get the planes back.
In 1970 (4) aircraft were hijacked at one time by the PFLP. Pan Am 93, a 747 was one of the 4 and it was blown up at Cairo after all the passengers were off.
Some of the later hijackings up to 1972 were extortion attempts.
I believe a part of the reason the term Stewardess was changed to Flight Attendant was to replace that waitress image. They had sort of come to be viewed as eye candy and waitresses, and the general public didn't have any idea that their most important role was to take charge of the cabin in any emergency, including passengers going bezerk.
Below are some funny, and some serious videos for enjoyment in your spare time. The Hong Kong Kai Tac airport landings at the bottom is one of my favorites.
Thanks Cap for the background info. Maybe you should contact the show for a consultant position. Sound like they need one.
How many pilots flying in 1963 were veterans of W.W.II and Korea(percentage wise)? I can't imagine the ones in the show doing anything like that.
I never knew any of those percentages. But probably the group in their age 50's were WWII, and many others were Korea.
Many were in the military but between wars.
I would guess that about 95% of the pilots had a military flying background.
My background was with a civilian airline. I got my training on my own, with some assistance from the GI Bill. Then became an instructor for a couple years to build up flying time and get my multi-engine rating.
After a couple years I was hired by Zantop a cargo airline and flew the C-46, the DC-4 and lastly the Argosy, a 4 engine turbo prop plane.
I was there for 7 years and flew as Captain for 5 years. Pan Am preferred to hire military pilots because they had good training, and they usually had about 1,500-2000 hours of flying time. I had 8,000 hours, plus 5,000 hours as Captain, so they hired me.
We all started at Pan Am as Flight Engineers or Navigators, and after about 2 years, the seniority would get us into the co-pilot seat. Then it was a matter of waiting until the seniority allowed us to check out as Captain with Pan Am.
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Bill didn't write the script, (I assume) and he is correcting our, the public's, view of the tv show. Most people have no idea what the truth about flying Pan Am is, so it's great to have someone who does know. At least from the cockpit's view. 
