Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Have to agree. It's not like people have to get up off the couch and go across the room to change the channel. People change the channel all of the time and there is even the term "channel surfer" to go along with it. Just reading this forum you can see that many people that participate in the tv forums surf channels and watch everything from the major networks to cable channels and shows that follow each other from one network to another.
I've never really bought it myself either. If there is nothing else on show wise at 9:00pm (when Leno comes on here), he has guests we might want to see then we watch him. However, as soon as he says his good-byes we change the channel to the local ABC network for their local news as we prefer it much better over the NBC one. Does not matter what lead in story they may have or what have you we switch. I don't watch Nightline either so then it is watch something I've recorded earlier or see who is on which late night show between Letterman and used to be Leno. Tried Conan for awhile and just couldn't get into it. His monotone voice and schtik got old fast so we don't watch him. We CHANGE THE CHANNEL till we find something we want to watch. Novel idea I know, changing the channel.
Funny, I change it to the NBC news because of the weather team. I cannot stand to even watch for a second Dale Hansen. I might watch ABC at 6 but never at 10.
Then why did the local affiliates late local news ratings plummit in lock step with this move.
Make no mistake that the local affiliates forced this change.
They didn't in the DFW area. The local NBC news at 10:00 has moved up very close to ABC during the November sweeps closing a big gap they had held previously. And the CBS local news was neck and neck for the top spot too. There was no ratings plummet here. And we are in the top ten TV markets....
Here are some quotes from Jeff Gaspin, chairman of NBCU Television Entertainment
Quote:
TV Reporter: “You hinted that [Leno’s show] was acceptable for the network, you were making money, and it was really the affiliate issue. But was it really? Could have you lived through the rest of the season with a 1.5 rating at 10 o’clock had [some of the affiliates ] not had 30% dropoff for the local news?”
Gaspin: “Yes. I would have preferred it. As opposed to crashing a schedule? I have shows to launch out of the Olympics. I would have much preferred to concentrate on launching shows, and trying to create new hit shows than now trying to explain to people why we have a new schedule. So I would have much preferred to have waited to September. I would have preferred to have seen the summer ratings.”
Quote:
Reporter’s Question: “Did you get a sense of how many affiliates were going to start preempting [the Leno show if it continued in primetime]?”
Gaspin: “There was about a third. There was about a third that were really hurt by [their local news ratings after Leno’s show] and were incredibly concerned.”
Late NBC local TV newscasts airing after "The Jay Leno Show" have seen ratings declined by 25% among key viewers, which is costing NBC stations $22 million every three months.
Media agency Harmelin Media said local TV newscasts across 210 TV markets lost one-quarter of their respective adult 25-54 viewership, the main viewer group for TV news advertisers. The reason: NBC programming "The Jay Leno Show" in the 10 p.m. time period four months ago.
The analysis said some of NBC's biggest markets were hit hardest: In New York, Los Angeles and Philadelphia, there were ratings declines of 48%, 43% and 47%, respectively.
Not for nothing, a modest gain in Dallas will not compensate for those kinds of drops in LA, NY & Philly
Quote:
Other analysis has pointed out that "The Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien" ratings are also down, partly a result of a lower ratings lead-in from "The Jay Leno Show" and lower late-night news viewership from local NBC stations. Bernie Shimkus, vice president of research for Harmelin, stated: "Even if 'The Jay Leno Show' was itself profitable from a production standpoint, as NBC executives continued to assert to the end, the overall revenue picture for the company was not moving in a positive direction. The situation has turned into a public relations disaster with affiliates."
MediaPost Publications 'Leno' Woes: NBC Local TV Battered By 25% Audience Drop 01/14/2010 (http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=120556 - broken link)
more going back to october - this storm has been building for a while
Quote:
Baltimore may be called Charm City, but for WBAL -- the local television station that carries NBC's "The Jay Leno Show" -- there isn't much to smile about lately.
Usually, WBAL is in a neck-and-neck race for viewers against arch rival WJZ. But since NBC debuted "The Jay Leno Show" in prime time five weeks ago, the station's 11 p.m. newscast -- where silver-haired Rod Daniels' 25-year run as anchor is the longest in Baltimore history -- has been shellacked in the ratings. Now WBAL is a distant second.
Quote:
"I'm not pleased with what Leno is doing. I don't think anybody is," said Craig Allison, vice president and general manager of KSHB in Kansas City, Mo. Allison's late news is off slightly from where it was a year ago, and he's anxious about the months ahead.
"I don't think any NBC affiliate wanted to wake up in the fall with a weaker lead-in to their late news," Allison said
Quote:
Ed Ansin, who threatened publicly last spring not to carry Leno on his Boston station WHDH and then backed down when NBC threatened to yank his affiliation, declined to comment.
Although Leno is a Massachusetts native, that's not helping him in Beantown. So far this month, WHDH's late-news ratings have fallen 17% compared with last October.
there is some optimism at that time
Quote:
"We're quite pleased," said Brooke Spectorsky, longtime president and general manager of WKYC in Cleveland. So far the station's news performance is flat compared with a year ago, although there are "still days in which you squirm a little."
Quote:
Although all three stations in Baltimore have seen the audience for their 11 p.m. news slip in the last year, the rate of decline for WBAL is much steeper, implying it is more than a case of general viewer erosion.
But WBAL's president and general manager, Jordan Wertlieb, isn't worried yet.
"People want to declare the game over because we are down a couple of runs after the first inning. There is a long way to go," he said. "We look at this as a 52-week strategy."
“Jay's show has performed exactly as we anticipated,” Rebecca Marks, an NBC spokeswoman, said today in an e-mailed statement. “It has, however, presented some issues for our affiliates. Both Jay and the show are committed to working closely with them to find ways to improve the performance.”
Among adults 25 to 54, the type of viewers advertisers covet, ratings for WFLA's 11 p.m. news initially rose 10 percent in the first week of Leno's show -- when most other networks were still airing summer series and interest was highest.
More recently, ratings among those viewers have dropped, as Leno's 10 p.m. rating have dropped from a high of 4.3 to the current average of 2.0 -- a 22-percent drop from last year.
This is the outcome Leno critics feared most; that low ratings for his 10 p.m. show would also pull down ratings for the 11 p.m. newscasts which follow on NBC affiliates. For example, while WFLA's 11 p.m. ratings have fallen, rival WTSP-Ch. 10 has seen its 11 p.m. ratings rise 46 percent, likely due to stronger ratings for its popular 10 p.m. dramas such as CSI: Miami and The Mentalist.
WFLA, which was leading the 11 p.m. ratings before Leno's debut, is now in second place, unseated by the new ratings dynamic Leno seems to be leading.
"In the Tampa market, late news historically is very much dependent on the strength of the prime lead-in," wrote WFLA research director Jennifer Yarter in an email to the St. Petersburg Times.
Quote:
WFLA isn't alone. according to the New York Post: "Ratings for late newscasts at NBC affiliates in 44 of the top 56 metered markets are down this year, falling an average of 13 percent in the first four weeks of the season compared with a year ago. In 10 of the top 25 major markets, the numbers are worse, with New York down 22 percent, Philadelphia off 37 percent and Miami down 30 percent."
this isn't about the guys creating the shows - it's about the executives who have bumbled the programming beyond belief
They didn't in the DFW area. The local NBC news at 10:00 has moved up very close to ABC during the November sweeps closing a big gap they had held previously. And the CBS local news was neck and neck for the top spot too. There was no ratings plummet here. And we are in the top ten TV markets....
not sure if that's the case
Quote:
The first weekday news wars in the post-November "sweeps" period found WFAA8 and CBS11 again battling for the top spots at 10 p.m.
WFAA8 won the total viewer Nielsens with 217,162, but CBS11 ran first by a comfier margin with 25-to-54-year-olds, the advertiser-favored audience for news programming. NBC5 placed third in both measurements, which is the case on most nights. Except when it occasionally finishes fourth behind Fox4's badly slumping 10 p.m. edition.
In other local news derby results, NBC5 continued its winning ways at 6 a.m. with golds in both ratings measurements.
this article had things going OK in DC - but not dallas in October
Quote:
Unlike WRC, NBC stations around the country haven't been immune to the Leno Effect, the tendency of his show to diminish viewing of the following program. During Leno's second week on the air in late September, NBC's Los Angeles station saw its 11 p.m. news ratings fall 30 percent compared with the same week last year. In Philly, the drop was 32 percent. In Dallas, it was 33 percent.
Honestly, I stopped watching late nite television shows. Carson was classic and no one can top him. I liked Letterman for a while, but within the past several years, he's gotten bitter and I don't enjoy his humor anymore.
Although I don't care for Conan, he did what he needed to do to get that Tonight Show spot. He shouldn't have to pay because Leno's show isn't doing well. But the genius nuts that run NBC will lose out. I wouldn't be surprised if they just let Conan go. The only thing NBC has going for it anyway is "The Office," and even the current season is below par. Honestly, they don't get ratings from me. I'd rather watch Carson reruns on DVD anyday.
good point Finger Laker regarding the number of these shows. honestly, I don't really watch late night talk shows. used to watch Conan back in the day, but not any more (have way too many early morning classes). I really don't care who hosts TTS, though I'm glad they gave Conan a chance. my BIGGEST issues w/ this whole nonsense (which I've harped about many times) was the fact that NBC, in their search for more money, took out an entire hour of prime time viewing to make way for yet another talk show. tons of people claimed that this was an idiot idea. there are too many of these shows as it is, never mind the ones of cable TV. these shows mainly exist for celebs to promote their latest project. there's only so many worthwhile celebs out there (hence Leno interviewing Snooki from "Jersey Shore" as if she was some A-Lister). these shows are cannibalizing themselves and NBC screwed up by trying to promote two shows they hoped would attract A-Listers (the Late Night Show tended to get leftovers anyways and no one really gives a hoot about Carson Daly). Leno's show was a stripped down version of TTS and it made no sense to have it almost back to back w/ the actual Tonight Show.
not sre why NBC execs thought Leno could compete w/ actual prime time programming. oh wait, they didn't care how bad the ratings were, how many viewers the show, and the network as a whole, lost. either way, they made money. I'm sure NBC would have gladly turned into another VH1 and simply show reality TV shows and talk shows all night if it meant making more money. this issue illustrates perfectly what happens when networks have a "make money at all costs" mentality. I know it's a business, but they neglected (and really, are still neglecting, considering their remarks about how well Leno did in terms of making them money) to see how their actions would affect their affiliates and shows following Leno
to reiterate, NBC is trash and it's really no wonder they're so behind in overall ratings
most of the lineup after the leno show lost ratings, hence the uproar from affiliates. Tts needs a strong lead in, especially since conan was new. A better lead in may have brought in better ratings for the show. W/ the leno show at 10pm, it basically caused a chain reaction that dragged ratings down for the whole lineup and caused people to switch. No, i'm not just blaming the shows poor ratings on a bad lead in (conan's brand of humor does admittedly take some time to get used to), but it was a major factor
yeah, but conan lost half of jay's ratings, half, are you really gonna blame leno on that? 50%???? My hometown nbc affiliate 600k, metro 1.1 million had an article in the paper today about how they gained ratings during thier primetime news. Btw, i hate the local nbc affiliate, always have, always will. To me they've always been the worst new channel. And what about remote controls? I don't totally buy this need for a "strong lead in" , i hop around all the time. If letteman has a good guest on i'll watch, i don't care what the cbs local news is like, for instance last night i watched jimmy fallon b/c ringo starr was on there, never watch conan, never watch the local nbc news and i don't watch fallon but i made sure to hit 2 buttons on my remote at 12:35 last night b/c ringo was on, for the full hour. I don't buy the lead in, people surf all the time.
leno failed, end of story. That whole sh*tty idea failed. People keep mentioning how conan lost most of the tts audience, yet no one wonders what happened to leno's demo when he made the switch. He lost the vast majority of his tts audience. The network lost a vast amount of the tts audience. Conan failed too, but, imho, his failure can be remedied in time, if nbc wants to give him a chance (and a better line up hopefully). So far, we've yet to see how conan would fare w/ a good "er"-esque lead in that would hold viewers to the network. Frankly, leno needs to retire and move one. He had a chance to retire gracefully from tts and screwed it up w/ that show and now this current fiasco. Imho, conan will weather this far better than leno, due to being younger and having the coveted demographic as his main fans
so how do you explain that conan's ratings in the 18-48 demo that he was supposedly there to be so good at -- they are no better than lettermans!!!!
still think conan handled this w/ true class by blaming everything on nbc? I don't think so. (granted, both hosts are taking shots at the network). Obviously, the current nbc prime time lineup is junk and is at least part of the reason for his poor ratings.people saw this coming from a mile away exactly, they knew there was big potential for leno's ratings to not be great but it was a cheaply produced show (just like reality tv) and didn't need great ratings to make money, plus it was a way for them to keep him from abc/fox, but i agree, they wanted their cake and to eat it too but knew they were taking a risk. (according to several tv people i've listened to) and nbc basically shot themselves in foot trying to pander to leno so much
badger - lead ins are definitely important - i'm with the group where it doesn't matter to me because I don't stick around
however, they are huge for networks and they try to use them as much as possible
ever notice that The Office starts just enough after the hour for you to catch the end bit to Parks & Recreation? They are hoping you see that joke and want to check it out and become interested.
Networks play with this type of stuff all the time. A large part of what they do is designing programming in a way to get the most effective lead ins.
While I'm just as quick to fire up the DVR at any moment regardless of lead ins - there are plenty out there who take the hook.
The lack of success for Conan can have some to do with him - but when the program in front of him is down 25% on average across the nation, the late primetime slot is pulling in a 2 share and his own network is watering down his content to promote a similar show at a broader time slot it's going to hurt his chances to even try
NBC still maintains that it was profitable (and for NBCU it most certainly was) - but for the affiliates it was so crippling that they were threatening revolt and flexing their muscle at a time when NBCU has to be careful to preserve their developing relationship with comcast
just bad management and decision making
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) and didn't need great ratings to make money, plus it was a way for them to keep him from abc/fox, but i agree, they wanted their cake and to eat it too but knew they were taking a risk. (according to several tv people i've listened to) and nbc basically shot themselves in foot trying to pander to leno so much
