End of Jones Act? (closing, living, food)

[pman]

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

So outsourcing our domestic routes and ports is somehow going to clean our political system and We are getting cheaper products and more domestic jobs?

possibly yes, since right now more jobs are destroyed by the restrictive policy than are created by it. I did not comment on ports but outsourcing ports is often better than state run ports yes. the main issue with the jones act is the part that is not replicated in other forms of transportation, specifically the requirement that the ship is built in the US (which hardly builds many ships).

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

I thought higher taxes and bigger government is a sanction on products and jobs but you tell me it's the Jones Act? ok

the jones act is a tax ok

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

Again, you want cheaper energy? let's drill at home which the left sanctions but are dependent on foreign energy which affects foreign policy and to the extreme wars. You think the U.S. are in endless wars and endless occupations and in 80 countries for the love and sharing?. Energy and natural resources. You want less of that, you become less dependent on foreign oil and let drill here.

we already produce enough to satisfy domestic demand but lack an economical means of getting the oil to refineries, that's what the article is saying.

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

I know independentistas hate the U.S. and blame even Santa Clause for their issues and frustrations but I'm still waiting to see how getting rid of the Jones act will make products in Puerto Rico cheaper and bring more jobs when you are outsourcing domestic jobs and the fact is Puerto Rico has the highest purchasing power than any Latin country behind the U.S. and Canada.

lowering shipping costs lowers the cost of goods both imported and exported. if DR pays a third as much, for example, to ship bananas, it has a built in advantage over and above lower labor costs. is eliminating, altering, or even just suspending it for energy a panacea? no.

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

Purchasing power in the America continent:
1) U.S. 2) Canada 3) Puerto Rico and a distance rest are all Latin Countries. Can somebody explain the gap? Those countries don't have the Jones Act.
Purchasing power is the value of a currency expressed in terms of the number of goods or services that one unit of money can buy. Purchasing power is important because, all else being equal, inflation decreases the number of goods or services you would be able to purchase.

not sure why you are conflating the Jones Act and purchasing power which have little to do with each other. the value of the dollar is largely a function of its status as world reserve currency and safe haven which has nothing to do with the jones act.

[SanJuanStar]

You argument is the Jones Act raises the cost of goods for Puerto Rico. Doesn't that affects purchasing power? If the cost of goods are too high and hurts job creation then people buy less. It goes hand in hand which you say there is no connection. I find that funny since the purchasing power of Puerto Rico is the highest than any Latin Country.

The U.S. restricts all of its domestic trade whether by air, rail, truck or otherwise to U.S. citizens (or permanent residents or qualified visa holders), who must comply with U.S. safety, environmental, labor, tax, and other laws. Waiving the Jones Act is like waiving all those laws, and is the equivalent of letting Mexican trucks owned and operated by Mexican citizens be used to take goods to Houston from Dallas without having to comply with U.S. speed limits, U.S. weight limits, U.S. work hour restrictions, not paying U.S. taxes, etc.


Again, you want American goods, use American ports, American routes, American credit, American protection, use American safety nets when it suits you but you don't want to pay the American taxes or obey their rules. Like We say in Puerto Rico: "Que mamey"


The Jones Act restricts U.S. domestic maritime commerce to qualified U.S.-flag vessels. Cargo movements from the Lower 48 states to Puerto Rico are covered by the law. The Jones Act does not apply to U.S. foreign commerce. Every cargo coming to Puerto Rico like every cargo coming to the rest of the United States from a foreign country can be carried in a foreign vessel because that is international, not interstate commerce. The U.S. Maritime Administration has reported that about half of Puerto Rico’s trade comes from places other than the United States.


You can always demand independence and not be under the Unites States umbrella and see how far that gets you but you are not going to use American credit, American protections, American goods, American ports and American routes and use their safety nets and don't play by their rules.


You don't want to pay taxes in doing business under the American umbrella but sure want the benefits and safety nets.

[pman]

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

You argument is the Jones Act raises the cost of goods for Puerto Rico. Doesn't that affects purchasing power? If the cost of goods are too high and hurts job creation then people buy less. It goes hand in hand which you say there is no connection. I find that funny since the purchasing power of Puerto Rico is the highest than any Latin Country.

yes, the Jones Act raises the cost of domestic goods between PR and the mainland. It isn't as simple as saying it affects purchasing power which is largely affected by other factors. moreover, it only makes certain goods more expensive (those between the US and the island), foreign goods are unaffected.

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

The U.S. restricts all of its domestic trade whether by air, rail, truck or otherwise to U.S. citizens (or permanent residents or qualified visa holders), who must comply with U.S. safety, environmental, labor, tax, and other laws. Waiving the Jones Act is like waiving all those laws, and is the equivalent of letting Mexican trucks owned and operated by Mexican citizens be used to take goods to Houston from Dallas without having to comply with U.S. speed limits, U.S. weight limits, U.S. work hour restrictions, not paying U.S. taxes, etc.

wrong. the jones act is the only one to require the vessel is built in the US. US truckers and airlines are free to use foreign built equipment.

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

Again, you want American goods, use American ports, American routes, American credit, American protection, use American safety nets when it suits you but you don't want to pay the American taxes or obey their rules. Like We say in Puerto Rico: "Que mamey"

also wrong, it has to be obeyed as long as its a rule but that isn't an argument for whether it should be a rule.

[SanJuanStar]

So basically, you want to be under the United States umbrella and interstate commerce but you don't want to pay their taxes or play by their rules and system. You just want the benefits of being under U.S. median income and their protection.

Why not demand independence? We know why, you want the benefits but don't want to pay. Let's all get rid of all business taxes, regulations and sales tax from interstate commerce. Let's see where would Puerto Rico get all the federal aid they get from the U.S. since you want to cut out a big source of revenue from the U.S.

You don't want to pay federal income tax in the island plus you don't want to play by the U.S. interstate commerce laws and regulations but you sure want federal aid and American credit and benefits. "Que mamey"

[pman]

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

So basically, you want to be under the United States umbrella and interstate commerce but you don't want to pay their taxes or play by their rules and system. You just want the benefits of being under U.S. median income and their protection.

are you a real person or a bot? no one said this. the jones act is bad for the US and bad for PR. no one is saying to disobey it as long as it is law.

[SanJuanStar]

Originally Posted by pman

are you a real person or a bot? no one said this. the jones act is bad for the US and bad for PR. no one is saying to disobey it as long as it is law.

Are you a real person or a snowflake?

If you say so. I guess you can keep repeating it until you are dead. Who is accusing you of disobeying a law? Maybe you need to re-read my posts again or better yet, don't.

All countries have their own Jones Act. I think you need to understand how economies and countries work. The U.S. is not going to put themselves in a disadvantage with the rest of the world whom have the same laws protecting their domestic shipping and domestic routes.

Maybe you can go speak at the UN and have all the countries do it. Good Luck.

[pman]

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

Are you a real person or a snowflake?

yes I say so and so do most economists. you keep repeating the same irrelevant items.

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

Are
All countries have their own Jones Act. I think you need to understand how economies and countries work. The U.S. is not going to put themselves in a disadvantage with the rest of the world whom have the same laws protecting their domestic shipping and domestic routes.

Maybe you can go speak at the UN and have all the countries do it. Good Luck.

you have no idea how economies work and have likely never taken a course in economics, you have repeatedly demonstrated that. no, all countries do not have the same exact rules as the jones act, most have some form of cabotage but not the jones act. the jones act puts the US at a disadvantage by essentially eliminating a form of domestic transportation for all practical purposes. this is somehow magically beneficial in your mind lol.

[SanJuanStar]

Like the say in Puerto Rico: "Te crees mas inteligente de lo que eres" You should quit. The United States will do what is their best economic interest and control not your feelings, just like China does and other Super economic powers.

China does not allow foreign flagged vessels to conduct domestic transport or domestic transhipments unless the prior approval of the Ministry of Transport (MOT) is obtained. There are a number of concurrent laws and restrictions that regulate maritime cabotage in China, the most relevant of which are:


* • The Maritime Code of China (“CMC”) – Article 4 –“maritime transport...between the Chinese ports shall be undertaken by ships flying the Chinese flag, except as otherwise provided...”


* • The Regulations on International Maritime Transportation (“IMT Regulations 2016 Version”) – Article24 –“Foreign operators of international shipping services shall not operate a shipping business between Chinese ports, neither may they operate a shipping business between Chinese ports in disguised forms such as using rented Chinese ships or shipping space, or Slot exchanging of the shipping space, etc.”


* The Regulations on the Administration of Domestic Water Transport (“TheWater Transport Regulations”) –Article 2 –“The term ‘domestic water transport’ ...refers to the commercial transport of passengers and cargoes in navigable waters, where the port of origin, the port of call, and the port of destination are all within the jurisdiction of the People’s Republic of China.” The general position in China, from the provisions above, is that carriage of goods wholly within China is classified as “domestic transport” and can be performed only by Chinese carriers.


To conclude, the cabotage trade in China,Hong Kong and Macau is restricted to Chinese-flagged vessels. There are regulations restricting foreign carriers from transporting or transhipping overseas cargo between Chinese ports. The application of the Maritime Code of China (CMC) and its interaction with subordinate regulations is subject to the interpretation of the local administration (e.g. the MOT). Foreign shipping companies are therefore recommended to take particular care when setting up their trade routes between Chinese ports, including ports in Hong Kong and Macao, which routes may involve crossing the Taiwan Strait.


https://www.ukpandi.com/-/media/file...botage_web.pdf


That kills your last post. The United States will continue the Jones Act because it gives them control of their interstate commerce. Maybe it doesn't work for you but what matters is to whom it works for and that's the United States like it works for China and so on. So thanks for sharing your feelings and making it personal but it doesn't matter. This is above your pay grade. If Puerto Rico doesn't like it, they can demand their independence and see how far that takes them.

[SanJuanStar]

To understand the economy and the revenue and U.S. interest, there are:124 shipyards in the U.S., spread across 26 states, which are classified as active shipbuilders. In addition, there are more than 200 shipyards in U.S. engaged in ship repair. The U.S. has 465 ships in the Merchant Marine. 29,000 Deck Officers, 12,000 Marine Engineers, 28,000 unlicensed employees. The median salary of a merchant marine is around $55,000, but the range of salaries can vary from $27,000 up to $120,000. American jobs unionized (which they should be)


To say that doesn't affect American jobs or U.S. revenues or the economy doesn't know what hell they are talking about. I'm a veteran from the Navy and I'm very familiar with the Merchant Marine which I met many in person in Seattle, Washington, Jacksonville, Florida and Norfolk, Virginia when I was active duty and when I live in San Juan, Puerto Rico which the father of my ex-girlfriend was a captain of a tug-boat (R.I.P.) and it's full of American jobs to average Americans including Puerto Ricans who are U.S. Citizens.


These workers and American structure pay taxes and vote. That's why the Jones Act isn't going anywhere. The people in charge of the U.S. knows better.

pman you have no idea how economies work and have likely never taken a course in economics, you have repeatedly demonstrated that

Yeah but you do. You know how to create blue collar American jobs by shutting down American factories and outsourcing jobs. The closest thing you came to a boat and water is when you took a ride in the ferry (lancha) in Cataño and in your bathtub with your toy boat.

I cut you some slack because you say you are Puerto Rican and I thought We can have an adult conversation but everything has its limits. If you don't care about the American working class and regular people why should they care about you or Puerto Rico when they whine?

[pman]

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

To understand the economy and the revenue and U.S. interest, there are:124 shipyards in the U.S., spread across 26 states, which are classified as active shipbuilders. In addition, there are more than 200 shipyards in U.S. engaged in ship repair. The U.S. has 465 ships in the Merchant Marine. 29,000 Deck Officers, 12,000 Marine Engineers, 28,000 unlicensed employees. The median salary of a merchant marine is around $55,000, but the range of salaries can vary from $27,000 up to $120,000. American jobs unionized (which they should be)

the size of the US labor force in 2021 was 161.2 million. whether they are unionized or not is irrelevant to me so long as employees are not coerced into joining a union.

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

To say that doesn't affect American jobs or U.S. revenues or the economy doesn't know what hell they are talking about. I'm a veteran from the Navy and I'm very familiar with the Merchant Marine which I met many in person in Seattle, Washington, Jacksonville, Florida and Norfolk, Virginia when I was active duty and when I live in San Juan, Puerto Rico which the father of my ex-girlfriend was a captain of a tug-boat (R.I.P.) and it's full of American jobs to average Americans including Puerto Ricans who are U.S. Citizens.

it reduces the number of american jobs by dramatically reducing shipping competetiveness. the fact is, you have something to lose directly but that does not translate into an understanding of how the act fits into the larger economy or whether it is beneficial to america. there are very few shipyards that build jones act ships and very few new jones act ships built every year which results in an extraordinarily old fleet. worse, shipping is almost completely irrelevant for domestic trade outside the Mississippi. the entire reason Hawaii imported VZ and then Russian oil was because of jones act BS and the complete inability of people like you to be reasonable. we mostly import foreign goods and move them around via non jones act methods (trucks and trains).

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

These workers and American structure pay taxes and vote. That's why the Jones Act isn't going anywhere. The people in charge of the U.S. knows better.

lol. they don't know better, that's why the US has been losing jobs, they have no idea how to be competitive. the reality is there are a vocal, tiny minority like yourself that scream and lobby whereas the beneficiaries of a more rational system are diffuse.

Originally Posted by SanJuanStar

Yeah but you do. You know how to create blue collar American jobs by shutting down American factories and outsourcing jobs. The closest thing you came to a boat and water is when you took a ride in the ferry (lancha) in Cataño and in your bathtub with your toy boat.

you are the one shutting factories down by forcing them to have exorbitant shipping costs. I'd love nothing more than to have a competitive manufacturing sector (noteworthy here, where that does happen in the US are mostly right to work states)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/waive-t...ts-11647462614

How could the U.S. be a net exporter of gas and also a hostage to foreign countries like Russia in a cold winter?

The answer, we found, is the Merchant Marine Act of 1920, also known as the Jones Act, which requires that ships operating between ports in the U.S. be constructed in the U.S. No ships capable of transporting liquid natural gas were built in the U.S., so New England, reliant on shipping for its energy because of the absence of pipelines, couldn’t buy gas from U.S. suppliers. Foreign vessels can bring gas from Trinidad to Boston, but not from any U.S. port.