U.S. TerritoriesPuerto Rico, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands, etc.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. think of it this way, planes are not required to be built in the US, neither are cars.
What? American planes for their commercial airlines and transportation are built by:
Boeing (American) Lockheed Martin (American) Sikorsky Aircraft (American) Gulfstream Aerospace (American)
Canada uses Bombardier (Canadian), European nations uses Airbus (European Union), China uses Comac (Chinese state owned). Japan uses Mitsubishi Aircraft Corporation & Kawasaki Aerospace Company. Australia uses Brumby Aircraft Australia (Australian) Russia uses PJSC United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) (Russian) Brazil uses (Embraer S.A.)
If you are using their domestic routes you have to use their airlines and planes. Again, it keeps the money within their economy and moves it around in their economy. This is how the global economy works.
You lost me with the cars comment. Cars that are use for consumers are not required to all be built in the U.S. but the trains, ships and planes use for transportation in the nation are. It creates jobs and it keeps the money moving around within the economy.
91 countries representing 80% of the world's coastlines of United Nations maritime states have cabotage laws restricting foreign maritime activity in their domestic coastal trades. UN member states with cabotage include U.S., China, European Union, South Korea, Russia, Japan, Chile, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Australia, and Canada
Why is some in P.R. demanding that the U.S. drops the cabotage laws when 80% of the coastlines nations have theirs? There are many factors that dictate prices.
I'm still waiting for the explanation why Puerto Rico has the highest purchasing power than any Latin country when those countries don't follow American Cabotage laws. They have their own. That's because many factors goes into pricing. The people in P.R. that wants to get rid of it but wants to keep American credit, America low interest rates, American protection, American merchandise and American ports think is a big thing for prices and reality says is not. It's only a very small thing out of many other things that dictates prices.
The people against the Jones act say that Puerto Rico pays more under the U.S. but never put the meat and potatoes in numbers so the people can see the price differences in goods with the law or without (going independent) compared to other countries next to them. All you can do is compared Puerto Rico in Purchasing Power, interest rates and inflation to other islands that are not under U.S. laws.
Aruba: 6.72% interest rate (4.7% P.R.), 82.3% purchasing power lower then P.R., 40% more expensive in gas in Aruba$94. Toyota Corolla Sedan 1.6l 97kW Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) $29,629.63 (P.R. is 249,200.00) Average salary in Aruba $1,116.67 (P.R. is 2,073.25) 1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) Aruba $74 (P.R. $45) 1 Pair of Nike Running Shoes (Mid-Range) Aruba $ 94 (P.R. $96)
Dominican Republic: 202% purchasing power lower, 13.18% interest rates, Average salary is $378 monthly. Gas is 30% more expensive in D.R. Toyota Corolla Sedan 1.6l 97kW Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) is $26,166.96 (P.R. $24,400). 1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) $38 (P.R. $45) 1 Pair of Nike Running Shoes (Mid-Range) $84 (P.R. $96)
Bahamas: 7.8% interest rates, 43% purchasing power lower. Average salary: 1,738 Toyota Corolla Sedan 1.6l 97kW Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) $36,167. Gas is 34% more expensive. 1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) $61
Venezuela: 320% purchasing power lower, 23.5% interest rate, Average salary is $280, Gas $2.03 (P.R. $3.15) Venezuela has oil so that's their only small edge. Toyota Corolla Sedan 1.6l 97kW Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) $31,125 (P.R. $24,200) Volkswagen Golf 1.4 90 KW Trendline (Or Equivalent New Car) $50,000 (P.R. $26,000) 1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) $41 1 Pair of Nike Running Shoes (Mid-Range) $67
The reason they can't, it's because there are many factors that dictates prices and purchasing power. It's economics. It's a lot more than repeating the same talking point of: "Americans built ships are more expensive. Demanding the crew to be U.S. citizens is more expensive, the law is 100 years old" None of that dictates prices. It's the value of the currency, inflation and demand, taxes, regulations all affects prices.
Ask them to tell you an estimate how much would P.R. save in goods coming from the U.S. if they were independent (not under the American domestic routes) They can't. All they want is American credit, American protection, their ports and their routes but wants to act like an independent country with house money.
If you are using their domestic routes you have to use their airlines and planes. Again, it keeps the money within their economy and moves it around in their economy. This is how the global economy works.
that's not at all how the global economy works. and you are saying that an american carrier cannot fly an airbus between US airports?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanJuanStar
You lost me with the cars comment. Cars that are use for consumers are not required to all be built in the U.S. but the trains, ships and planes use for transportation in the nation are. It creates jobs and it keeps the money moving around within the economy.
cars are inherently transportation but I think you mean commercial transportation. it does not create jobs, that's is completely false, he jones act destroys jobs in manufacturing, energy, and shipping. protectionism leads to higher prices and less service, that is how the global economy actually works.
that's not at all how the global economy works. and you are saying that an american carrier cannot fly an airbus between US airports?
No, you are confused. If you are flying in between states you have to use American airlines that their planes are made by American companies like Boeing and Lockheed. If you are flying in between European routes you have to use their European airlines and their planes that is Airbus (European). China has theirs, so does Japan and so on.
European Airlines with European planes can come to the U.S. in an international route (1 stop in a few airports in the U.S. to drop and pick up and leave) but not domestic. Do you understand the concept of domestic routes vs international routes? You have to learn the rules of monopoly board game if you want to understand it let alone play it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pman
cars are inherently transportation but I think you mean commercial transportation. it does not create jobs, that's is completely false, he jones act destroys jobs in manufacturing, energy, and shipping. protectionism leads to higher prices and less service, that is how the global economy actually works.
Domestic cars are NOT use for commercial transportation. I don't know what car you drive but I doubt that you can pull a huge cargo from Jacksonville, Florida port and bring it to Georgia and Alabama just 1 time let alone everyday and make it work but it would be a funny sight.
What do you mean it doesn't creates jobs in the U.S. economy? Who works at Boeing, Lockheed, Huntington Ingalls Industries, Northrop Grumman and the list is long in the economy? You think the American economy runs by itself? The U.S. has the #1 GDP in the world and who runs that? the air? a machine?
You say it doesn't create jobs and creates higher prices and less service. So why Puerto Rico purchasing power is higher than any Latin Country and any island in the Caribbean? Why Puerto Rico has more access to buy goods than any Latin Country? Doesn't that kills that myth?
and why the big nations have the same law for them? try it, buy a ship, load it with American cargo and go to China and deliver it to all their ports. You won't have a ship for very long.
But why P.R. doesn't go independent? They can get their own credit, their own protection, their own ports and routes and they can buy from whoever in the world. It won't be with American credit, protection and low interest rates but you won't be under the American law since you say it's bad and very expensive to transport goods.
Again, if you are using American credit, American protection, American goods, American ports and American routes then you play by their rules. If Puerto Rico doesn't like it, they can buy from Venezuela or Brazil or China or Japan and see how does that works out but you are not using American credit or American house money.
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 01-23-2022 at 12:02 PM..
Just a correction: US airlines are not bound to operate US-manufactured equipment in domestic routes. Plenty of Airbus product being utilized by US airlines to provide domestic lift, both at the regional (Embraer) and mainline (Airbus primarily, since Bombardier was gobbled up) sectors.
The cabotage limitation in the US air transportation sector deals with crews only, not crews and vessel country of manufacturing. hell, there are US major airlines who dabble on single type foreign made fleet (Spirit for instance, flying an all-Airbus 320 variant only fleet.)
You are correct. Passenger Airlines is not the same thing as Sea Cargo shipping even though it has to be U.S.airlines using American domestic routes. It's a treaty between the U.S. and the European Union in using Boeing and Airbus in both of their backyards. Boeing and Airbus are multi-national companies. So both powerhouses have a monopoly on their planes.
Looking at Air Freight like Fex Ex and UPS and other regional ones is the same but they are multi-national companies that operate in Europe. But it's between the 2 giants U.S. and EU. You don't see letting smaller countries to compete. You are talking about Boeing and Airbus between the U.S. and the European Union. It has nothing to do with the prices of goods in P.R.
I want to know how much savings for Puerto Rico We are talking about in goods by American ports by taking out the Jones Act and why the purchasing power in P.R. today is way higher than any Latin America Republic or any of the islands in the Caribbean. Are they pushing the purchasing power higher and leave their neighbors in the dust?
It would be nice if the people making the Jones Act a big deal to break it down in details how much more higher they are paying for goods coming out of the U.S. ports. Then explain how is that equates to more jobs. I never made the connection but I want to see if somebody can.
Politicians of all parties in Puerto Rico used the Jones Act why their economy is messed up and the government in debt without giving details but it looks more of a scapegoat to take the eyes off them.
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 01-23-2022 at 05:26 PM..
Its as if the Jones Act and Act 60 were removed the economy in PR would be so much better curing many ills.....
It's just low hanging fruit for snarky sound bites. Cause the politicians have no real ideas, and are intellectually lazy.
The Jones act.....it's not going anywhere.
Smart politicians always pick an issue they can never defeat. They always need a boogie man.
Solving a make believe problem, which would not cause any improvements after, would show them for who they are.....
Independence, another one. It's not ever going to happen. If it does then my guess is the world has much bigger problems!
Statehood only if the Republican party is weaker than ever, which now is getting stronger. So no.
I heard the Jones Act excuse since I was growing in the island. It first started with the Independent movement and Commonwealth folks back in the 80's but now all 3 parties push it. It's like the boogie man to take away the attention from their bad administration and high taxes and heavy regulations on business imposed by them.
They all say the same talking points: "that the Jones act cost Puerto Rico more money on goods and cost jobs". When you ask for details in how much the difference in goods, it's crickets from them. If you tell somebody that they are getting screwed in their insurance or mortgage then you tell the client in details and in black and white, so they understand and push for a change with facts but you don't tell people they are getting screwed with NO details or facts. That's just cheap politics.
The reason is, there are many factors that goes into prices on goods and jobs. They don't want to tell in details how much money their own government is screwing the people so they never break in down in details the cost of living in the island. It's easier to blame the U.S. Jones Act than to go into details or educate the people of P.R. because they treat the people of P.R. dumb and that will make them admit a bunch of stuff. Like the Wizard behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz movie. They don't want to pull down the curtain.
Last thing, the Jones Act has been around the U.S. for over 100 years. It's deep down part of the American economy that many people, jobs, unions and businesses that pay taxes make the money move around inside of the American economy and are dependent in the system. Don't you think before you want to abolish something you have a solid plan in place to replace every sector in the sea shipping economy smoothly to transition to the new one?. They don't. All they do is blame the Jones Act, give no details why it's more expensive and how much more the consumer pays now and jobs they don't get because of the law but they also refuse to say how many American jobs and business will be affected in revenues and the consequences for that in that sector.
It's like saying I want to get rid Social Security and outsource the government jobs to the private sector and put the people's earnings and employer's contributions in the open market so people get a better return and make it private with no details how to do it or how huge the change will affect the current system and the economy and people that depend on it today.
Reminds you of young people in college that want to change the world but has no idea about nothing or the details how it works. A famous Navy Seal once said: "I think that people are often in a rush to talk in an educated manner about things they know nothing about"
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 01-24-2022 at 10:52 AM..
Its as if the Jones Act and Act 60 were removed the economy in PR would be so much better curing many ills.....
It's just low hanging fruit for snarky sound bites. Cause the politicians have no real ideas, and are intellectually lazy.
The Jones act.....it's not going anywhere.
Smart politicians always pick an issue they can never defeat. They always need a boogie man.
Solving a make believe problem, which would not cause any improvements after, would show them for who they are.....
Independence, another one. It's not ever going to happen. If it does then my guess is the world has much bigger problems!
Statehood only if the Republican party is weaker than ever, which now is getting stronger. So no.
The Jones Act isn't going anywhere because for 100 years, this system put revenues into the U.S. Treasury (revenues that P.R. needs in federal funds to operate on a daily basis) and it moves the money within the American economy. You think the federal government is going to throw away their revenues and economic domination on their ports and lanes to foreign economies because some people in Puerto Rico have bought the silly myth that they are paying too much for American goods from American ports and losing jobs?
They are complaining that American goods coming directly from American ports are too expensive and it's hard for them to buy goods (Puerto Rico purchasing power is the highest in all Latin Countries and in the Caribbean, let's hide that huge fact from their argument) Then don't buy goods from American ports. Puerto Rico can buy from whoever but not with American credit, protection or low interest rates.
Go try to get the same deal with China, European Union, Japan, Brazil, Mexico and see what does that get you but you are not using American credit and American economic protection laws. Let's see if those countries wants to lose money by forgiving most of Puerto Rico's debt when they can't pay.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
American planes for their commercial airlines and transportation are built by:
