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Shouldn't Puerto Ricans be given the choice of re-associating with Spain?
It was ruled by Spain for hundreds of years until the US took it away.
Why not offer the option of becoming an associated territory of Spain, perhaps with EU membership?
Spain is economically weak compared to the U.S. From a business point of view, it makes more sense to associate with the U.S. for Puerto Rico. Plus, the U.S. is much closer, so transport is cheaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSPNative
It seems absurd that decades after the British, French and Portugese empires ended, the US still has a colony.
The Falkland islands are basically a British colony. France has Guadeloupe.
Puerto Rico is the largest of what could be considered a "US colony," but in fact the US has several colonies scattered around the planet. The fact that it does is the reason why this subforum exist! They call this subforum U.S. Territories!
Shouldn't Puerto Ricans be given the choice of re-associating with Spain?
It was ruled by Spain for hundreds of years until the US took it away.
Why not offer the option of becoming an associated territory of Spain, perhaps with EU membership?
It seems absurd that decades after the British, French and Portugese empires ended, the US still has a colony.
NO. Puerto Ricans were given a choice a century ago and they decided to be with the U.S. There is no need to ask them absurd questions especially unrealistic and clueless. It's like asking the 13 original states if they want to re-associate with Britain or asking Alaska if they want to re-associate with Russia or California, New Mexico, Texas, Arizona or Colorado if they want to re-associate with Mexico or Spain (both countries owned those territories centuries ago) It's a laughable question.
Apart from taking American Civics and a history lesson, you should take geography. Puerto Rico is in the Caribbean in the Americas. Europe is another continent. How are you going to make Puerto Rico into a European member? relocate the island physically ? You have 2 problems. P.R. is a U.S. territory with U.S. Citizenship for over 1 century and P.R. is not in Europe. What's next asking Cuba to join ASEAN (Southeast Asia Union)
Puerto Rico is NOT a colony as define from the colonial era centuries ago as Britain, French and Portugal. It's a protectorate. In general, a colony is governed internally and externally by a foreign power, while a protectorate governs itself internally, while the Metropolis power controls its external relations. The U.S. is not a foreign power to P.R.
I never read in history class that colonies were full citizens from the colonized countries with full protection and rights.
The U.S. Constitution recognizes states and territories in the U.S. system. Congress has the power to declare territories and to extend federal rights to their territories. That's where the Insular cases came in when the Supreme Court punted the ball to Congress. It was Congress that had to decided what to do with their new territories with Congressional Acts. Congress is the political branch not the courts.
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 08-09-2021 at 02:34 AM..
NO. Puerto Ricans were given a choice a century ago and they decided to be with the U.S. There is no need to ask them absurd questions especially unrealistic and clueless. It's like asking the 13 original states if they want to re-associate with Britain or asking Alaska if they want to re-associate with Russia or California, New Mexico, Texas, Arizona or Colorado if they want to re-associate with Mexico or Spain (both countries owned those territories centuries ago) It's a laughable question.
Apart from taking American Civics and a history lesson, you should take geography. Puerto Rico is in the Caribbean in the Americas. Europe is another continent. How are you going to make Puerto Rico into a European member? relocate the island physically ? You have 2 problems. P.R. is a U.S. territory with U.S. Citizenship for over 1 century and P.R. is not in Europe. What's next asking Cuba to join ASEAN (Southeast Asia Union)
Puerto Rico is NOT a colony as define from the colonial era centuries ago as Britain, French and Portugal. It's a protectorate. In general, a colony is governed internally and externally by a foreign power, while a protectorate governs itself internally, while the Metropolis power controls its external relations. The U.S. is not a foreign power to P.R.
I never read in history class that colonies were full citizens from the colonized countries with full protection and rights.
The U.S. Constitution recognizes states and territories in the U.S. system. Congress has the power to declare territories and to extend federal rights to their territories. That's where the Insular cases came in when the Supreme Court punted the ball to Congress. It was Congress that had to decided what to do with their new territories with Congressional Acts. Congress is the political branch not the courts.
Are you trying to earn my support by insulting me and attacking me? Or do your insults and attacks serve another purpose?
Whatever the reason, since you've attacked and attempted to insult me, instead of you trying to be civil, I'm certainly going to disagree with your statements above.
Great Britain and France have numerous territories that have close associations with the mainland, including French territories near Quebec; territories in South America; and more. And the Commonwealth of Nations includes even India, countries in Africa, Australia, Canada, etc. Thus there are numerous examples of distant territories having an association with "the motherland"--including Carribbean islands that have associations with Great Britain and European countries. Puerto Rico would be one of many examples if it chose some type of association with Spain.
I'd be fine if the US, like many other former British colonies, chose to join the Commonwealth of Nations.
Great Britain had numerous colonies that it referred to as "protectorates" and that had extensive internal autonomy.
It is racist to force Puerto Ricans to associate with the United States (including, without limitation, by forcing English on Puerto Ricans). Puerto Ricans should be given the opportunity to throw off the US shackles, celebrate their culture and be free of US racism.
Last edited by GSPNative; 08-09-2021 at 08:49 AM..
Are you trying to earn my support by insulting me and attacking me? Or do your insults and attacks serve another purpose?
Whatever the reason, since you've attacked and attempted to insult me, instead of you trying to be civil, I'm certainly going to disagree with your statements above.
Great Britain and France have numerous territories that have close associations with the mainland, including French territories near Quebec; territories in South America; and more. And the Commonwealth of Nations includes even India, countries in Africa, Australia, Canada, etc. Thus there are numerous examples of distant territories having an association with "the motherland"--including Carribbean islands that have associations with Great Britain and European countries. Puerto Rico would be one of many examples if it chose some type of association with Spain.
I'd be fine if the US, like many other former British colonies, chose to join the Commonwealth of Nations.
Great Britain had numerous colonies that it referred to as "protectorates" and that had extensive internal autonomy.
It is racist to force Puerto Ricans to associate with the United States (including, without limitation, by forcing English on Puerto Ricans). Puerto Ricans should be given the opportunity to throw off the US shackles, celebrate their culture and be free of US racism.
Who is "attacking" you? I suggested you take American Civics, U.S. History and Geography. How is that "attacking" you? If you do, you would answer your own post why the U.S. can't kick out Puerto Rico or a more crazier idea of returning to Spain and be in the European Union. If your "history" is a drive by of Wikipedia then you are not fooling anybody and I understand why your posts are clueless.
If you think the U.S. having territories and expanding U.S. citizenship with the full protection of the U.S. Constitution "racist" then take it to the U.S. Supreme Court and good luck. You do accept the U.S. Supreme Court as law of the land do you?
Who is forcing English only on Puerto Rico? You lost me. If that was a U.S. policy (which is NOT) it has done a lousy job and it can't be enforced since all Puerto Ricans on the island and mainland speak Spanish and the U.S. citizens in the U.S. that refuses to speak English are NOT punish by the U.S. Government. So you lost me with your "racist" attack on the U.S.
Who is stopping Puerto Ricans of practicing and celebrating their culture: Puerto Rico has been a U.S. Territory for 123 years and nobody is blocking them to speak Spanish or practicing their culture. Thanks for the laugh and your unfounded opinion about nothing.
Let me explain this again since you have been ignoring my posts and from others. The United States can't take U.S. Citizenship away from millions of Puerto Ricans. It's settled law. The Supreme Court, the law of the land have spoken (which you seem to ignore) and it would be UNCONSTITUTIONAL. You can't give by force millions of U.S. Citizens to another country. This is American Civics 101. Forget about joining Spain or the EU. The U.S. is not France or Britain. If you have taken American Civics and understand the country you are from you wouldn't be comparing it to another country.
Just stop. This is way over your head. The U.S. Supreme Court is the law of the land not France or Britain or Quebec or Wikipedia. Puerto Rico goes what the U.S. Supreme Court declares and not Quebec. It's like discussing the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. to a European. It doesn't matter what they think or do in their country or their feelings. What matters here is our constitution and laws. If the U.S. Supreme Court decades ago declared in settled law that the U.S. Government can't take away U.S. citizenship by force then it's settled in Puerto Rico. Why do you suggest to give millions of U.S. citizens to Spain and be part of the EU with NO clue of the constitutional mess it would create? You act like you speak for the U.S, Spain and the European Union. I guess you ran that idea with the U.S, Spain and the EU and they think it's was a great idea. I hope you get credited for it.
"Hey Spain, guess what? We are dumping 8 million people in your country unlawfully and you have to protect them and provide. I just messed up your nation's budget for decades and you have to raise your taxes even higher. I just came up with the idea. Good luck"
"Hey EU, guess what? We are expanding the EU to the Caribbean. There are 8 million people that you have to take in the EU (they now belong to Spain) but they are not in Europe. You might have to change your name. Great idea, I just came with that up"
While you are at it, lets give most of the Southern West Coast back to Mexico. Hawaii back to the Native family monarchy, Alaska back to Russia and Florida back to Spain. Don't stop there, let's give back the whole Louisiana purchase back to France and be in the EU. It's all about your feelings, right?
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 08-09-2021 at 11:42 AM..
Who is "attacking" you? I suggested you take American Civics, U.S. History and Geography. How is that "attacking" you? If you do, you would answer your own post why the U.S. can't kick out Puerto Rico or a more crazier idea of returning to Spain and be in the European Union. If your "history" is a drive by of Wikipedia then you are not fooling anybody and I understand why your posts are clueless.
If you think the U.S. having territories and expanding U.S. citizenship with the full protection of the U.S. Constitution "racist" then take it to the U.S. Supreme Court and good luck. You do accept the U.S. Supreme Court as law of the land do you?
Who is forcing English only on Puerto Rico? You lost me. If that was a U.S. policy (which is NOT) it has done a lousy job and it can't be enforced since all Puerto Ricans on the island and mainland speak Spanish and the U.S. citizens in the U.S. that refuses to speak English are NOT punish by the U.S. Government. So you lost me with your "racist" attack on the U.S.
Who is stopping Puerto Ricans of practicing and celebrating their culture: Puerto Rico has been a U.S. Territory for 123 years and nobody is blocking them to speak Spanish or practicing their culture. Thanks for the laugh and your unfounded opinion about nothing.
Let me explain this again since you have been ignoring my posts and from others. The United States can't take U.S. Citizenship away from millions of Puerto Ricans. It's settled law. The Supreme Court, the law of the land have spoken (which you seem to ignore) and it would be UNCONSTITUTIONAL. You can't give by force millions of U.S. Citizens to another country. This is American Civics 101. Forget about joining Spain or the EU. The U.S. is not France or Britain. If you have taken American Civics and understand the country you are from you wouldn't be comparing it to another country.
Just stop. This is way over your head. The U.S. Supreme Court is the law of the land not France or Britain or Quebec or Wikipedia. Puerto Rico goes what the U.S. Supreme Court declares and not Quebec. It's like discussing the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. to a European. It doesn't matter what they think or do in their country or their feelings. What matters here is our constitution and laws. If the U.S. Supreme Court decades ago declared in settled law that the U.S. Government can't take away U.S. citizenship by force then it's settled in Puerto Rico. Why do you suggest to give millions of U.S. citizens to Spain and be part of the EU with NO clue of the constitutional mess it would create? You act like you speak for the U.S, Spain and the European Union. I guess you ran that idea with the U.S, Spain and the EU and they thought it was a great idea.
"hey Spain, guess what? We are dumping 8 million people in your country and you have to protect them and provide. I just came up with the idea. Good luck"
"hey EU, guess what? We are expanding the EU to the Caribbean. There are 8 million people that you have to take in the EU (they now belong to Spain) but they are not in Europe. You might have to change your name. Great idea, I just came with that up"
While you are at it, lets give most of the Southern West Coast back to Mexico. Hawaii back to the Native family monarchy, Alaska back to Russia and Florida back to Spain. Don't stop there, let's give back the whole Louisiana purchase back to France and be in the EU. It's all about your feelings, right?
You are attacking me (and lots of other people).
Slandering and attacking people isn't a good way to win them over, FYI.
Puerto Ricans are divided about the future status of Puerto Rico, so adding in a new association with Spain into the mix of options is not unreasonable.
As I've stated, Puerto Ricans' voices are what should count. If Puerto Ricans want to have some type of association with Spain, and if Spain also wants it, they should be able to freely achieve that status. Puerto Rico's status should be decided democratically; Puerto Ricans shouldn't be forced to do anything.
I'm not aware of anyone in Alaska wanting to rejoin Russia, so your other positions are straw man arguments.
Slandering and attacking people isn't a good way to win them over, FYI.
Puerto Ricans are divided about the future status of Puerto Rico, so adding in a new association with Spain into the mix of options is not unreasonable.
As I've stated, Puerto Ricans' voices are what should count. If Puerto Ricans want to have some type of association with Spain, and if Spain also wants it, they should be able to freely achieve that status. Puerto Rico's status should be decided democratically; Puerto Ricans shouldn't be forced to do anything.
I'm not aware of anyone in Alaska wanting to rejoin Russia, so your other positions are straw man arguments.
I'm not aware of Puerto Rico wanting to join Spain. So that makes your argument in a straw man argument on steroids. My posts were an answer to your straw man arguments but it went over your head. I'm not here to change your opinions regardless if there are misguided or clueless but funny.
The definition of attacking: launching or engaging in a military or violent physical attack. (Hmm that doesn't apply here)
The definition of slander: the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation. Make false and damaging statements about someone. That doesn't apply here either.
You are striking out. 0-3. Correcting your clueless posts is not slander. Puerto Ricans should sue you for slander.
Puerto Ricans are not divided in returning to Spain. They are politically divided in remaining a U.S. territory with U.S. Citizenship and full U.S. protection or becoming a state. Your suggestion of returning to Spain is clueless. The U.S. doesn't want it, Puerto Rico doesn't want it (the only time P.R. talks about Spain is in history class like the dinosaurs) and Spain doesn't want it. So why bring your idea up?
Are you from Spain? I understand P.R. being independent (which P.R. fully rejects and it's impossible constitutionally) and joining a Caribbean Union or the Latino Union but the EU? Might as well join the Asian community since most of the stuff sold in P.R. are made in Asia.
Am I slandering you?
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 08-09-2021 at 12:07 PM..
Why do people suggest that Puerto Ricans are not heard or have No rights in the courts? They act like Puerto Ricans have less rights than Latinos across the Americas.
Quote:
As I've stated, Puerto Ricans' voices are what should count. If Puerto Ricans want to have some type of association with Spain, and if Spain also wants it, they should be able to freely achieve that status. Puerto Rico's status should be decided democratically; Puerto Ricans shouldn't be forced to do anything.
This is from a person that knows nothing about P.R. and their history. The P.R. and U.S. constitutions go side by side in P.R. Not only it offers rights and property rights and protections to Puerto Ricans that the majority of Latinos dream of but it's a very stable system. A lot better than Spain and Latin Countries. Spain just had a dictatorship that lasted until 1976.
I was born in P.R. and lived there and go to the island to visit a lot . I have never heard in my 50 years of existence of P.R. wanting to join Spain or a movement (serious one) demanding it. The only time we discussed Spain was in a classroom talking about history, never in the real P.R. Even the people at the Panaderia España in Carolina in P.R. (great place) who are managed by real Spaniards never told me they want P.R. to return to Spain. The love the U.S. Dollars and property rights that the U.S. constitution protects them. You can't make this up. Returning to Spain and be part of the EU. What's next be part of China?
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 08-09-2021 at 12:35 PM..
You're beyond redemption. I'll let you rage against someone else.
I see that you're a Trump supporter. That explains it.
Who is asking for redemption? I suggest you go to a topic that you are familiar with knowledge about the history, law and the people before you double down on clueless posts. Just admit you are way out of your league about P.R. and move on. We understand, you are not Puerto Rican or know about American Civics.
I guess you voted for Biden (do you vote in the U.S.?) You can't lecture anybody in how they voted. Thanks for the laugh.
There is a saying in Puerto Rico "El Ladron Juzga por su condicion". Then you accused me of attacking and slander when it's you that does it when your posts gets exposed.
How do you beat returning to Spain and be in the EU? yeah, that's the topic in the streets in Puerto Rico and U.S. Congress.
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relocate the island physically ? You have 2 problems. P.R. is a U.S. territory with U.S. Citizenship for over 1 century and P.R. is not in Europe. What's next asking Cuba to join ASEAN (Southeast Asia Union) 
