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The fact that people are referencing movies and tv shows as evidence in this thread is concerning.
I think some people WANT to believe, some people WANT to feel they have some connection to the otherworld. So then everything becomes evidence.
I don't doubt that there is more than meets the eye going on, but the whole ghost thing is such a creation of our minds, now blown out of control by pop culture.
Here's a question- Why do we assume that a ghost will look like the person did? Oh that's right, because that's how it looks in the movies.
But I guess they found ghosts on some ghost hunter tv show, the debate is over!!!
Paranormal can be many things and it can mean different things to many people. I think it is fair to define what I personally feel is paranormal by a common object. Movies like Ghost specifically speak to the idea that spirits can pass through objects (such as steel doors and walls) that we humans perceive to be solid and impenitrable.
Some like apples, like Bing Cherries. So what? It is what it is. I never intended for this thread to degenerate into a cat fight and personal attaciks over a bucket and a pail in a sandbox. If that was the goal I would have posted its elsewhere. But that wasn't the goal.
Well thought out comments was and is still the joy of a Great Debate.
Paranormal by its very definition is events or phenomena that are boyond the scope of normal scientific understanding. I watched "The Medium" on television, and the movies "Ghost Busters"" and Patrick Swayze's "Ghost". I've read a couple of Ruth Montgomery's books, and of course little girls have been admonished for years that to "find a prince you have to kiss a lot of frogs."
I've been sceptical and even poo-pooed the whole idea but i cannot deny I saw my grandmother's ghost walk through a wall one night. I was a wide awake adult at home and not under the influence. I had just finished the crossword puzzle and turned out the lights. I was fascinated, not at all frightened, but I was more than a bit unhappy she did not stop or talk to me. Maybe ghosts can't talk fir a reason.
So now I'm back on the fence. Is paranormal real? BTW, I've not seen a ghost since.
Consider this, scientists believe there are a lot more than the 3 dimensions of spacetime we observe (4 if you count time itself). Who's to say how our existence extends into those other dimensions? Perhaps part of what makes us who we are resides there, so when the 3 dimensional bodies decay and cease to be whatever remains in those other facets of the universe continues on? My point is that there's so much we don't understand about the universe around us that almost anything is possible.
I believe in ghosts but only because we had a ghost in our house growing up. Had I not experienced this I'm sure I would not believe any of it. (Our ghost was nice)
I do believe that there is something that defies explanation, I just don't know what or how to explain it. I know I have experienced things that I can't explain and go far beyond the realm of explanation, but I still have to weigh this with the fact that I am an atheist and have for a long time believed that when you die, you simply decompose. It is a conflict in beliefs to say the least, because the logical side of me says that there is no real evidence so therefore it must have been something else. The other part of me says so what if I can't explain it, I have seen what I have seen and am not insane.
They will tell you that you are ignorant for believing or having faith in anything-
Unfortunately, the current trend that I see is being called "delusional", not just ignorant. That's a very disturbing trend because you don't get locked up for being ignorant. As a believing Christian, I can envision a time when I might be considered a danger to society for my "delusions" about the existence of God. These are truly worrisome times.
I believe there is some sort of paranormal in as far as there are definitely things that cannot be explained. Perhaps the reason that such paranormal occurances cannot be proven is that they are occuring outside the confines of the natural world and therefore cannot be proven by the limitations of this physical world.
(I'm much too exhausted from a 14-hour day to go much further than that; perhaps on Thursday when I'm off work. But I will state that I am vehemently against those people that exploit others who believe in the existence of spirits, especially those that have lost loved ones and are emotionally being taken advantage of. However, I do not think this discussion is about such people; it is too bad that belief in spirits and such gets such a bad rap from charlatans and fakes).
There should be really clear evidence of this, but there isn't. So, it only seems reasonable to conclude that there is no such thing.
If you personaly experience supernatural phenomena you have witnessed the evidence and believe it. But you can't convince others because they haven't experienced it.
What I know is if one lives long enough he/she will have a lifetime of experiences. Some are good, siome are good, some are bad, some might be puzzling. I spent a lot of years studying religion - which i think has a lot more to do with mano e mano than I do with god, ghosts or parahormal experiences. I don't necessarily give wieght to one more than I do to the other. I just don't see that religions and the paranormal, when closely examined, are a whole lot different than two blind men describing the same adult bull elephant, or the scholarly biblical debate over the elephant between two adults. Regardless of the side you stand on, it is still an adult bull elephant that is being debated. Were the town men not blind, and the certain passages of the Chrisian bible not written as parabal perhpas were ould be nothing to Debate?
I think we ight have a great deabate yet. Paranormal, I think, is far more complicated than ghosts. Who is familiar with numerology, regression, horoscopes, Farmer's Almanac, The Mists of Avalon, the Gardeners of the earth, seance, Ouiji Board, palm reading, card readers?
There is an old axiom that states, "When the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear.' I think it will be an exciting debate to see how this unfolds.
I don't "get" your pop culture today nor was I influenced by it 30 years ago. That argument doesn't hold water.
I don't use moview to prove anything except they may or may not be good entertainment. I use a movie as an example of what paranormal events actually look like in real life.
Maybe someone else knows a better answer?
Now I have a question for you. If I don't know what my grandmother looked like, how could I possibly know the ghost I saw walk through a wall was my greandmother?
Quote:
Originally Posted by swerver
The fact that people are referencing movies and tv shows as evidence in this thread is concerning.
I think some people WANT to believe, some people WANT to feel they have some connection to the otherworld. So then everything becomes evidence.
I don't doubt that there is more than meets the eye going on, but the whole ghost thing is such a creation of our minds, now blown out of control by pop culture.
Here's a question- Why do we assume that a ghost will look like the person did? Oh that's right, because that's how it looks in the movies.
But I guess they found ghosts on some ghost hunter tv show, the debate is over!!!
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