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You are preaching to the wrong people, basically the government and people in power don't want to leave the EU, they are creaming it in, its the working classes that are suffering, basically the government will simply not leave, the UK is NOT a Democratic country, I think a revolution may be in order - its about time we had one.
I'm not so sure the people actually do want to leave.
2016 was a long time ago already and since then Leaving has crystallized.
No economic benefits to be had there.
I suspect people have changed their minds and a 2nd Referendum maybe with more options on the ballot is going to be the only way to resolve it.
I'm not so sure the people actually do want to leave.
2016 was a long time ago already and since then Leaving has crystallized.
No economic benefits to be had there.
I suspect people have changed their minds and a 2nd Referendum maybe with more options on the ballot is going to be the only way to resolve it.
This has been the only solution for some time, but everyone keeps dancing around it.
The fact is we haven't yet left and if it transpires that people have changed their mind then we owe it to ourselves and those who come after us to act on that. We cannot allow ourselves to be chained to something we voted for three years ago without the information that's before us now.
This has been the only solution for some time, but everyone keeps dancing around it.
The fact is we haven't yet left and if it transpires that people have changed their mind then we owe it to ourselves and those who come after us to act on that. We cannot allow ourselves to be chained to something we voted for three years ago without the information that's before us now.
It seems to me that an advisory referendum is just that, advisory.
Think jman0war you are bordering on slipping towards nonsense that people do not want to leave. Even on tv programmes like Question Time one can see and hear the reaction of people. They are irritated at voting in a referendum and ignored by so-called representatives. The LibDems are as we know pushy remainers and as i said elsewhere their slightly pompous leader has said that even in another referendum she would vote to stay and if did not win would fight again! The remainers inslt Brexiteers by waffling that that corner didn't know what they were doing. What all those millions are silly??
The remainers inslt Brexiteers by waffling that that corner didn't know what they were doing. What all those millions are silly??
This is trotted out constantly. Let's be serious here. Do you honestly think that most leavers had any idea of the impact on jobs and businesses that Brexit would cause? That they were aware of things that no one was aware of at the time? Did they take into account the Irish problem? They love to say they knew what they were voting for, and get very indignant at the suggestion that they didn't.
They didn't, and to even suggest they did is ludicrous.
No, of course the 17.4 million aren't silly. They weren't fully informed either. If any of them are having their jobs threatened now would they be voting the same as then? I think not.
If we had a second vote now to find out if any change in public opinion has occurred - in the interests of the country - and both sides refrained from accusing the other of alterior motives we would get a genuine up to date opinion of the British People. We deserve to know that.
The gladiatorial games continue in Westminster as they have done for three years.
The people can & should decide for themselves. We need to draw a line under the events of 2016.
The referendum was flawed and disputed methods of implemetation prove that.
Have a vote - all abide by that new (and reliable) result. It's the only way.
Have a vote - all abide by that new (and reliable) result. It's the only way.
Unfortunately, whichever side loses this election will NOT abide by the results. If the remain voters win this time, they will see it as vindication for all their efforts to thwart the original referendum.
And many, not all, but many, possibly even a majority of the original 17m that voted to leave will completely lose faith in government once and for all.
No election will ever be seen as legitimate again.
If the Brexiters win again, they will wonder if Parliament finally has the guts to do something, or if they will see the next 3 years pass with nothing being done.
Parliament is screaming that they haven't had a chance to debate this, yet they have had 3 years. They voted down the deal negotiated on 3 separate occasions. What have they put forward as solutions, proposals, compromise? Nothing? Is it strictly for government to put forth the proposals in the UK?
What they have done is to pass a law that say's that the UK cannot leave the EU without a deal. And they, Parliament, will NEVER pass any deal any government brings to them, because they don't want to leave.
And why does anyone believe that the EU will renegotiate or change the current agreement when they have said at least 100 times that the deal is non-negotiable, take it or leave it.
Actually, most of those original voters to leave probably lost all faith a long time ago.
Conservatives have been in power now for 9 years, they opened this pandoras box all by themselves and since then have failed to bring it to resolution.
The reason they have not is because they are also divided and are not all of the same opinion.
Leaving is a complex issue.
2016 is already a long time ago declare the issue decided; since then there are something like 2m new young people voting age that would probably like a say on their future.
A new vote largest majority wins:
-Leave on WTO terms
-Leave on WA
-Revoke
Parliament is screaming that they haven't had a chance to debate this, yet they have had 3 years. They voted down the deal negotiated on 3 separate occasions.
What they have done is to pass a law that say's that the UK cannot leave the EU without a deal. And they, Parliament, will NEVER pass any deal , because they don't want to leave.
.
That pretty well sums it up.
Brexit never would have been brought up for a vote in the first place if the govt thought there was any chance that 'leave' would actually win.
The process was supposed to take three years,and now people are saying,"that was a long time ago,that was years ago we should vote again because people feel differently now!"OK...so maybe votes should be taken on every issue annually...maybe all laws should be reaffirmed annually.....maybe married couples should vote annually on staying married.....maybe Scotland should vote on independence annually in case anybody changed their mind,and then tally 5 years of results and go with 3 tears out of 5
I watched a very interesting tv show last night about slavery in the UK. It involved a court case against a group of Polish citizens who had enslaved vulnerable Polish people. They were very well organised. They found their victims in Polish shopping centres, and places like railway stations.
They tended to be drug addicts, alcoholics, folks just out of jail. Big promises were made about good wages to be made in England. Once their targets agreed, they were rushed to England by bus. On arrival, they were put in a house with other victims, and put to work right away.
Bank accounts were opened in their names, and bank cards issued. They never saw the cards themselves. Their oppressors told them they owed money for rent, food, transportation. The houses they lived in had no heating, and in some cases, no electricity. They were told if they tried to run away, they would be killed.
The programme concentrated on a three year investigation by police to bring the slavers to justice. Many ran back to Poland during the investigation. After a four month court case, some were found guilty, and imprisoned.
What did this three year investigation, and four month court case cost the British taxpayer? These vulnerable victims are in no hurry to go back to Poland. They are now being looked after here in my country. So we are now stuck with Poland´s vulnerable alcoholics and drug addicts forever?
There are similar stories to this one happening all over England. Drug and prostitution Eastern European warlords fighting over turf in places like Essex.
Is this part of the cultural enrichment we are told of, from being members of the EU?
Unfortunately, whichever side loses this election will NOT abide by the results. If the remain voters win this time, they will see it as vindication for all their efforts to thwart the original referendum.
And many, not all, but many, possibly even a majority of the original 17m that voted to leave will completely lose faith in government once and for all.
No election will ever be seen as legitimate again.
If the Brexiters win again, they will wonder if Parliament finally has the guts to do something, or if they will see the next 3 years pass with nothing being done.
Parliament is screaming that they haven't had a chance to debate this, yet they have had 3 years. They voted down the deal negotiated on 3 separate occasions. What have they put forward as solutions, proposals, compromise? Nothing? Is it strictly for government to put forth the proposals in the UK?
What they have done is to pass a law that say's that the UK cannot leave the EU without a deal. And they, Parliament, will NEVER pass any deal any government brings to them, because they don't want to leave.
And why does anyone believe that the EU will renegotiate or change the current agreement when they have said at least 100 times that the deal is non-negotiable, take it or leave it.
Actually, most of those original voters to leave probably lost all faith a long time ago.
You have just about hit the nail on the head. If there is a Second vote, remainers will ensure the questions will be confusing ones. No more yes or no to EU membership.
This will be deliberate, to ensure some kind of remain in the EU wins. These people don´t want to leave under any circumstances, and certainly not with a deal of any kind. That´s what all that has gone on this last three years is really about. At least the Liberal Democrats admit it. For them, it´s all about remaining in the EU.
If we are forced to remain, the bitterness and anger will never go away. Every new treaty the EU comes up with, for ever closer union, will be fought tooth and nail by the likes of Nigel Farage. It will never end. We will be forever the nail in the EU shoe. How much their desire for our money, will ensure they put up with constant foot dragging by a reluctant member?
Better to let us go, regroup, and then get on with their project. The real thing they want, is rid of us, but still get money from the UK. Well, take a look at the deal they want us to accept. That´s their way of getting rid of us, and keep getting money from the UK coffers.
Out. Now.
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