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Also, any chance anyone could comment on the scenarios I've outlined below?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kettlepot
Route 1:
Boris resigns, and Corbyn cobbles together a coalition of everybody else. I guess Corbyn could afford to leave out about 15 of the 21? Tories who bolted, if there are a few who can't stomach voting for socialism and a socialist. Prime Minister Corbyn accepts one of the bad deals May negotiated. That deal is rejected by parliament (again). All pretense is dropped and Article 50 is revoked (Lib Dem preference). The UK stays in the EU.
Route 2:
Somebody, probably Boris himself, calls for a vote of no confidence in his government.
Scenario A: The Opposition votes to keep the government in power even though they want him out of power. The goal would to keep Boris Johnson in power while some version of Route 1 is enacted over the prime minister's objections, destroying the Tories politically, humiliating Johnson, and then jumping up and down on his politically lifeless body.
Scenario B: The Opposition votes no confidence which to my understanding would lead to the election Boris wants and the Opposition wants to avoid. And if it doesn't cause an election then you're back to Route 1.
I couldn't possibly comment on the above except that it is highly unlikely that Article 50 would be revoked.
For now, the only reasonable course of action for the parliament is to avoid a no deal. How they are going to do it and whether or not they are going to be successful is anyone's guess. They are somewhat assisted by the fact that Benn Act is now on statute books but, as this latest episode has so clearly demonstrated, law isn't much of an obstacle when it comes to the government who find it easier to ask forgiveness than permission.
After the no deal issue is resolved, that's when the question of no competence/election should be raised.
The only way to find out if the British people want to leave the EU with no deal is to ask them, trying to pull the UK out without that confirmatory vote will just bring more and more obstruction.
If it really is the will of the people then so be it.
Such a drastic decision cannot be taken without clear public support.
We can all argue back and forward what we think here on the forum but there is only one way we will ever know for sure.
They already have.
The last election was fought by the Tories under the slogan " No deal is better than a bad deal "
It's only because of the shameless hypocrisy of the 21 hardcore Tory Europhiles that this is not happening.
Part of me wishes Corbyn had a hope of getting elected as PM because if you think a No Deal would be bad a Trotskyite Corbyn-McDonnell administration engineered by Seamus Milne would be a catashrophe.
Money would flow out of this country like Niagara Falls.
They already have.
The last election was fought by the Tories under the slogan " No deal is better than a bad deal "
It's only because of the shameless hypocrisy of the 21 hardcore Tory Europhiles that this is not happening.
Part of me wishes Corbyn had a hope of getting elected as PM because if you think a No Deal would be bad a Trotskyite Corbyn-McDonnell administration engineered by Seamus Milne would be a catashrophe.
Money would flow out of this country like Niagara Falls.
At least we can agree that Corbyn would be catastrophic for the UK.
This is why Brexit is a stand alone issue and needs dealing with as such.
I've been watching the 2016 Brexit referendum BBC coverage in small doses on youtube over the last several weeks. after watching 10 hours of coverage of the vote, what stood out to me is this referendum was touted for being an expression of democracy in the UK and treated by the political pundits on bbc and the politicians interviewed as a serious vote. Of course, leave won.
Yet, 3 years later Brexit hasn't happened. How can voters force the politicians to leave the EU? Is it even possible for the voters to force them?
I've been watching the 2016 Brexit referendum BBC coverage in small doses on youtube over the last several weeks. after watching 10 hours of coverage, what stood out to me is this referendum was touted for being an expression of democracy in the UK and treated by the political pundits on bbc and the politicians interviewed as a serious vote. Of course, leave won.
Yet, 3 years later Brexit hasn't happened. How can voters force the politicians to leave the EU? Is it even possible for the voters force them?
We can't force the politicians to obey the result of the 2016 vote. But, we can vote them out of their cushy jobs at the upcoming General Election. It's going to be a bloodbath.
Now that we know that it's practically impossible for Britain to leave the EU the only reasonable course of action is a Do-over Referendum. Brexit supporters shouldn't resist a Do-over because the possible upside for them is clear: they might win again.
Now that we know that it's practically impossible for Britain to leave the EU
Except we don't know any such thing. The rule states that we have to leave on 31 October, deal or no deal. The only way this is not going to happen is if the UK asks for an extension, which all members of the EU would have to approve. If no extension is sought, we leave the EU. If the extension is not agreed upon by the EU, we leave the EU. This only becomes murky if the extension is granted.
Now that we know that it's practically impossible for Britain to leave the EU the only reasonable course of action is a Do-over Referendum. Brexit supporters shouldn't resist a Do-over because the possible upside for them is clear: they might win again.
why have a "do-over"? I saw politician after politician say they would respect the results of the democratic decision of the voters prior to the referendum vote in 2016. they haven't. there is still no Brexit three years later.
Now that we know that it's practically impossible for Britain to leave the EU the only reasonable course of action is a Do-over Referendum. Brexit supporters shouldn't resist a Do-over because the possible upside for them is clear: they might win again.
They're frightened they'll lose - understandably.
At the same time, some on here don't appear to accept that over the past three years minds could have been changed.
To me it's inevitable - and in both directions.
If the referendum had been one where the result was carried out soon after the vote, we'd be living with it now - for better or worse, but even without the delay it would have been nearly three years.
It would be extraordinary if there were not significant shift in the public mood over three years, given the events during that time.
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