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What I said was, if people in Los Angeles has embraced the streetcar early on, the Westside would probably look a lot more like Central / East LA than what it looks like today. Do you have an argument with my actual position, not some dumb straw-man argument (that just highlights your utter lack of imagination)? Obviously people didn't embrace streetcars in Los Angeles (or anywhere else in the US, really), but in my post I was positing that they did.
Why are you assuming that I'm responding to your post as opposed to answering the OP's question. Did you even read the OP? The OP says absolutely nothing about assuming that people embraced the streetcar early on. That's the idea that's dancing in between your ears right now, but that's not the idea suggested in the OP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup
This is why every LA thread gets ruined. I would be willing to bet money you post more about Los Angeles on these threads (City vs. City and Urban Planning) than anyone else, including LA boosters. Really, really weird, man.
Why so emotional? Go back. Read the OP. Think about it objectively (if you are capable of doing that). And then answer the question.
The point I was trying to make is that the street-car era development of Los Angeles is different from the car-era Los Angeles from a development standpoint. Using my imagination I thought of a city in which public transportation for whatever reason was not looked down on. In that world, more of Los Angeles would probably be developed in the way Central / Eastside LA are developed.
Well, then, that's a completely different matter, isn't it? If people, for whatever reason, completely kicked cars to the curb in 1920s L.A., the city likely would have taken on a different urban form. But that's kind of like wondering how profitable Tower Records would have been if people stopped pirating music and using iTunes and just bought all of their music there instead.
The answer is so obvious that I don't think it's much fun as an intellectual exercise.
Well, then, that's a completely different matter, isn't it? If people, for whatever reason, completely kicked cars to the curb in 1920s L.A., the city likely would have taken on a different urban form. But that's kind of like wondering how profitable Tower Records would be if people stopped pirating music and using iTunes and just bought all of their music there instead.
The answer is so obvious that I don't think it's much fun as an intellectual exercise.
This assumes cars and streetcars cannot co-exist. It's all or nothing, black or white, cars or transit, urban or suburban, walkable or unwalkable?
This assumes cars and streetcars cannot co-exist. It's all or nothing, black or white, cars or transit, urban or suburban, walkable or unwalkable?
Sure, they can co-exist. Just like record players and CD players can co-exist. At the end of the day, however, record companies have to make a decision as to whether they will stock Best Buy with more vinyl records or CDs. And seeing that CDs are favored over vinyl for a variety of reasons, the reality dictates that they stock more CDs than vinyl.
Los Angeles faced a similar choice very early on in its history. Why wouldn't you design a city around the prevailing mode of transit at the time?
What do you mean? We're all typing on computers right now (I hope...if not, let me know what type of mind-reading technology you're up on that I'm not).
The computer has been around for a good period of time, but it didn't take in the average household for a long time due to cost, perceived complexity and lack of usefulness (prior to/early on with the internet). I believe that as early as 2009, only 65% of households had computers. Imagine what the numbers would look like if starting in 2000, internet connections were paid for by the government (no monthly or duration-based costs), tax breaks were given for the purchase of computers and the post office had new regulations imposed that increased the cost of mailing a check.
Sure, they can co-exist. Just like record players and CD players can co-exist. At the end of the day, however, record companies have to make a decision as to whether they will stock Best Buy with more vinyl records or CDs. And seeing that CDs are favored over vinyl for a variety of reasons, the reality dictates that they stock more CDs than vinyl.
Los Angeles faced a similar choice very early on in its history. Why wouldn't you design a city around the prevailing mode of transit at the time?
Interesting that like streetcars, vinyl is seeing a surge in popularity.
Also, I wouldn't use major-label record companies as an example of solid decision making. Their predicament is especially laughable as indies are still posting profits (Selling... gasp! Vinyl!).
The computer has been around for a good period of time, but it didn't take in the average household for a long time due to cost, perceived complexity and lack of usefulness (prior to/early on with the internet). I believe that as early as 2009, only 65% of households had computers. Imagine what the numbers would look like if starting in 2000, internet connections were paid for by the government (no monthly or duration-based costs), tax breaks were given for the purchase of computers and the post office had new regulations imposed that increased the cost of mailing a check.
You do realize that the basic foundation of the internet was largely built by governments, correct? Why? Because responding to your post within a matter of seconds over the internet is much more efficient than me walking to the post office, licking a stamp, and waiting 3 days for you to see and then respond to this post (and waiting three more days for that response).
Interesting that like streetcars, vinyl is seeing a surge in popularity.
Also, I wouldn't use major-label record companies as an example of solid decision making. Their predicament is especially laughable as indies are still posting profits (Selling... gasp! Vinyl!).
Same thing with the film industry. Just goes to show that a profit-first mentality can't trump quality, creativity and logic forever. Eventually, you run out of customers and money.
Interesting that like streetcars, vinyl is seeing a surge in popularity.
LOL. I knew this was coming.
How much money do you think record companies make off of iTunes and ringtone sales every year compared to vinyl?
Vinyl is definitely vintage (I enjoy it) and that's what this generation is really into. Vintage. We really dig sh*t that's no longer of much practical use. Sure, vinyl has a cool sound and feel to it, but I can't slip it in my pocket and listen to it during my morning commute.
For the most part, decisions are going to be shaped by efficient and practical uses. Not emotional and sentimental uses.
You do realize that the basic foundation of the internet was largely built by governments, correct? Why? Because responding to your post within a matter of seconds over the internet is much more efficient than me walking to the post office, licking a stamp, and waiting 3 days for you to see and then respond to this post (and waiting three more days for that response).
Actually, it was largely the National Science Foundation Network (NSFNET) which was a variety of private organizations (e.g. IBM, etc.), and public funding (including universities).
My point being that public subsidy and regulations that favor a technology can rapidly speed up acceptance of said technology, and that it doesn't always just take off because it's new and shiny.
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