Ready to leave Utah (Salt Lake City, Provo: areas, county, seafood)

[BuckeyezRule]

Originally Posted by dcisive

I guess I'm coming from a completely different place, and am willing to accept that. I would imagine it is rather unrealistic to think that a church that has existed for a couple hundred years would be similar to one that has existed for a couple of thousand Different strokes for different folks. To me (and for me) there simply are places kids shouldn't be for some obvious reasons. There is a level of maturity in MY mind that is essential for proper worship. Children don't have that. This isn't about "teaching" them that by dragging them along and having to be in an environment that isn't compatible for someone that has the attention span of all of 2 minutes. I DO expect that in many restaurants I'll deal with that. I DON"T expect to when in a place of worship. Just the way I grew up, and frankly the way it still IS in some environments. Parents of the 90's and beyond have become familiar and comfortable with children going EVERYWHERE and there virtually not being any place where they are unwelcome. Guess I'm a dinosaur but in my youth there were a good many places that children were NOT found. EVERYONE needs a "time out" to some degree and there SHOULD be places where certain conditions and behaviors are simply NOT acceptable. But indeed we live in a bit of changed world. It's a "Whatever" world now. Not sure I like it. If I had a hand on the time machine I'd be sorely tempted to hit the switch

I totally get what you are saying. I do agree. It's kinda like a tale of 2 types of parents. You have 1 set that does take their kids everywhere (I'm in that set as I have no family here, &, I do want to) , & the set who is constantly pawning their kids on Grandma & Grandpa. I no longer have the option of having my parents grandparent our kids. Since moving here, we've had maybe 3 date nights w/ just hubby & I, a handful of nights out w/ friends, &, I go to mom's nights out a decent amount, along w/ bunco every mos. lol It works for hubby & I. We adore each other. We honestly miss our kids if they aren't w/ us. I think it has more to do w/ the fact that I'm a big kid myself, & I do things kids usually do, so, I'm always thinking how my kids would love 'x' & 'y'. lol

Originally Posted by ChrisC

I don't think it has anything to do with "judging others." It more along the lines of common courtesy. If there is some sort of service being offered and no one in the congregation can hear it or get anything out of it, then it is a waste of everyone's time.

If I go into (any) church in order to receive spiritual instruction/enlightenment and all I'm getting is ten unruly children braying in my ears, I simply would leave and not come back. Nothing is being gained by anyone present--the listeners can't hear/concentrate, the speaker is wasting his/her breath, and the kids are learning bad manners. What's the point of being there, again?

I agree, that is why I said 'w/in reason'. ie a screaming kid should be taken out. When I did go to a sacrament Sunday, there were some kids running up & down the aisles, but not loud or in a disruptive manner. My neighbor brought art supplies for her younger sons & my kids used them too. Never had that at my own church. lol

Originally Posted by ChrisC

Gonna have to say I agree with this. Same problem exists in restaurants around here. I simply never go to restaurants anymore. I shouldn't have to pay for others' lack of parenting skills. It's just another one of those things that has changed for the worse over the years.

Lord, I totally agree. Many parents & kids today are awful. The one thing I instill in my kids is RESPECT. There's that one restaurant in Pittsburgh that is 6 & over only. I would be fine if there were restaurants that were like bars, 21 & older. If I wanted to take my kids, I wouldn't go there. Simple. =)

Originally Posted by lauramc27

I also agree. I was raised Catholic and we went to 9:00 a.m. Sunday mass and all 3 of us sat and listened. We did not play, run around, whisper or fidget. We were taught we had to be still and respectful.

Same, though, we went Sat evening mass. We only go on Sunday morning now because the kids are in CCD. My sis & I went to Catholic school, so, we didn't need the classes. =)

Originally Posted by stycotl

even the toddlers and infants are quiet and attentive? i'd wager it is the older kids that are quiet and attentive, or at least quiet. i'd wager the younger kids are still noisy, or are just not there.

Not really sure on attentive, but, usually pretty quiet. Any that aren't are usually taken out. Though, to be honest, I've lived here almost 5 years, been going to our church for 2 (before that we bounced around) , & I've only seen one baby taken out for being loud. He wasn't even crying, he was 'babbling'. lol Maybe parents can see cues before the kids get loud & take them out??? I'm not really watching, just know it's not loud in there, except for our priest. lol I was taught from an early age that mass is a time to listen & stay quiet. lol I won't lie & say I loved it, but, I was quiet, & I did listen. =)

I went to church once a week in school from K through 9th, then on Sat w/ my Mom (& sis when she was old enough) from 2nd grade-until I was 18. Then, went through the not going phase, but I got back into it when hubby told me he wanted to convert to my religion. He's more devout than I am at the moment. lol

&, I still love living here. =) I already knew, but, just to the invite on our door today for the 'neighborhood trunk or treat' at our local LDS church. I've went every year except one that I didn't know when it was. =( I hope it's not rainy like it was last year. We had to do it indoors. lol

[DelaneyRudd]

Well, my job is moving me to LA. I'm single so I'm excited. Maybe in 10 years if I need a good school system I'll move back. I'll represent SLC and tell people it's a nice place.

[irman]

Maybe Hawkeye S'Belle, will leave this post ...

14th Article of Faith

Good intentions, are like Noisy Children.
Does not mean anything, unless you carry them out !!

OK, OK, back to original post please !!!

[dcisive]

No different than Judaism. We call it "Halakah" the Walk. It is how you WALK out the commandments that makes the difference, not just reading about them The Hebrew lifestyle is all about what you DO, not what you say......

[BuckeyezRule]

Originally Posted by dcisive

no different than judaism. We call it "halakah" the walk. It is how you walk out the commandments that makes the difference, not just reading about them the hebrew lifestyle is all about what you do, not what you say......

ita! =)

[iheartart]

Utah is such a pretty place and so much more spacious than other places I have lived, yet I feel that something is missing too. And I thought about it and one of the things is that with all this outdoorsiness--many are extraverts, skiing, snowmobiling, hiking, what have you, there seems to be less of introverted mental/intellectual energy. The other thing I see is a vestige of the wild west, parts of which are welcome but others that are a bit disconcerting. There's a big distrust of government and the law, seems to me that has seeped into the culture. It's surprising how many people distrust the authorities of sciences, global-warming, evolution, etc. mostly for reasons of defiance.

[Lamborgotti]

I'm not sure I can relate to what you've said. A lot of people come here by choice, and I can see that being the extroverted type. But there are a lot of people who are raised here that perhaps go under your radar. I think the suburban, family-oriented culture can be very conducive to introversion, in certain respects. I never felt like I quite fit the mold as I was growing up, but I've encountered my fair share of thinkers as I've gotten older. Perhaps introverted people, by their nature, are hard to identify in a setting like this. But they are there.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about a distrust of the government/law. Respecting authority is a huge part of LDS culture. But I can tell you people around here certainly do have lower expectations and less confidence in public officials than they do their church leaders. Perhaps they remain skeptical of secular authority, but I don't think people elsewhere are any more trusting of politicians than they are here. I can only recognize a desire to be defiant for the sake of being defiant in younger generations... I don't see that as peculiar.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by iheartart

there seems to be less of introverted mental/intellectual energy.

Being an introvert, I can tell you that if you lived next door to me, you'd hardly know I exist. By definition, all that introverted mental/intellectual energy is expended in private. I suspect that's why you don't see many of us.

Originally Posted by iheartart

The other thing I see is a vestige of the wild west, parts of which are welcome but others that are a bit disconcerting. There's a big distrust of government and the law, seems to me that has seeped into the culture. It's surprising how many people distrust the authorities of sciences, global-warming, evolution, etc. mostly for reasons of defiance.

Always question "authority." Always question "experts." I teach in a university setting, and I encourage my students to question everything my "expert" self teaches them. To do otherwise is simply a Pied Piper/Rat/Children or a Shepherd/Sheep relationship. Distrust/question has nothing to do with defiance--I simply think for myself. Sometimes my research leads my to agree and sometimes it leads me to disagree. More often it leads me to question a conclusion which should not have been made by "authorities" or "experts." Remember, once upon a time, "authorities" told us the earth was flat.

[irman]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

Remember, once upon a time, "authorities" told us the earth was flat.

Hah ... When I visited Kansas, I think they were right ...
But I agree it was a round flat thing !!!

All seriousness aside, I have never seen so much wheat all in one place !

[kaytidid]

I, too, am an introvert, as is my oldest daughter. We like people, they just exhaust us! Chances are there are a lot of introverts in Utah. Being true to our nature though, you wouldn't even know