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I moved to Vancouver a year ago, after having lived in several other cities in North America (New York, Montreal, Los Angeles, Toronto). I know that West Coast cities developed later and much differently than those in the East/Mid-West, and that I can't expect the same urban model/layout here. But there are a number of things about Vancouver's urban form and infrastructure that still puzzle me.
I'm wondering if any natives/long-term residents can offer an insight on the following questions. Some answers might be due to accident, some due to history, some due to intentional planning policy - any clues would be appreciated.
1. Why are the ferries so far away? With plenty of waterfront in Vancouver, why must we travel so far to get to the ferry terminals?
2. Why is part of the Skytrain a loop (Metro/Expo lines)? Why does VCC-Clark just end? Hearing "Terminus-Waterfront" as I go EAST on the Skytrain is unnerving. Is the loop a common pattern in rapid transit systems?
3. Why is 12th avenue a residential street but also practically a highway? When did this start?
4. Why does Vancouver not have any ward/neighbourhood/borough-level government? Why are all City Councillors appointed at-large? Who am I supposed to talk to when I have a local issue?
5. Why is the area around Science World still not developed? Wasn't that developed for the '86 Expo? Being right off downtown, I'd have thought this area would be the first to be developed/densified.
6. Why did SFU and UBC decide to locate their campuses out in the middle of nowhere? And why didn't they build a Skytrain stop on SFU campus (or at least much closer) when extending the system?
7. Why does Commercial Drive development just completely disappear south of 12th avenue? It's so dense and vibrant and then...nothing.
8. Why is the area around the Stadium so confusing to walk around? Is it just me? I get lost there as a pedestrian all the time.
10. Why didn't they extend the Skytrain one stop to Stanley Park from Waterfront? Everyone wants to go there.
11. Why is City Hall so far from downtown? And VGH? Was this an intentional choice to spread out civic infrastructure?
12. Why are all the outdoor clothing/sports stores clustered on Broadway between Main and Cambie? It's great if you are comparison shopping for athletic wear, not so great if you want to buy anything else.
13. Why does Kingsway feed on to 7th avenue at Main? 7th isn't a major street.
14. Do we really need the zoned fare system? It's hard to incentivize transit use in lower-density areas if we make it basically as expensive as driving/owning a car.
i moved to vancouver a year ago, after having lived in several other cities in north america (new york, montreal, los angeles, toronto). I know that west coast cities developed later and much differently than those in the east/mid-west, and that i can't expect the same urban model/layout here. But there are a number of things about vancouver's urban form and infrastructure that still puzzle me.
I'm wondering if any natives/long-term residents can offer an insight on the following questions. Some answers might be due to accident, some due to history, some due to intentional planning policy - any clues would be appreciated.
1. Why are the ferries so far away? With plenty of waterfront in vancouver, why must we travel so far to get to the ferry terminals?
land. A ferry terminal with all the car space needed to board take up a lot of valuable land. The downtown peninsula is just too small and was too developed to plunk down such a service.
There was talk back in the 1950's to have the ferries dock at what is now acadia beach. I'm not certain why it was never chosen, but if you have ever been to that part of vancouver i'm sure you will agree that it would of destroyed such a beautiful beach and a lovely neighbourhood.
Horseshoe bay is only 20 to 30 minutes from downtown, so not that far really. Tsawwassen ( if you want to sound like a true local then don't pronounce the t ) is quite far and a bit of a pain i agree.
2. Why is part of the skytrain a loop (metro/expo lines)? Why does vcc-clark just end? Hearing "terminus-waterfront" as i go east on the skytrain is unnerving. Is the loop a common pattern in rapid transit systems?
i'm guessing at this one, but the two lines were built at different times. The expo line was first. When they built the millennium line years later from commercial drive to sapperton, it only made sense to go a little further and join the existing expo line at columbia and just loop back to commerical. Vcc-clark ends but i do believe eventually it will link up to whatever line they extend down broadway and then to ubc.
3. Why is 12th avenue a residential street but also practically a highway? When did this start?
it actually is called grandview highway once past nanaimo street going east. It's a good question, one i never gave much thought before. Someone may know for sure, but i think since it eventually links up to highway 1, ( trans canada ) that sometime in the past someone may have had the idea to make it a major highway and it just never happened.
4. Why does vancouver not have any ward/neighbourhood/borough-level government? Why are all city councillors appointed at-large? Who am i supposed to talk to when i have a local issue?
the ward system was put to a referendum in 2004 but was rejected. It may be brought up again as some feel it better represents each neighbourhood. Who to contact? I have never had to, but i would think it depends on the issue. Different councillors may have a more sympathetic response depending on what it is.
It is kind of clunky in that regard, perhaps someone here who has experience can comment.
There is this though.
5. Why is the area around science world still not developed? Wasn't that developed for the '86 expo? Being right off downtown, i'd have thought this area would be the first to be developed/densified.
the worlds fair site was large. It extended from science world west to where the roundhouse community centre is. Development started closest to downtown and moved eastward. Since it was all bought by one man, li ka-shing, i'm not sure how much control the city had on the whole thing.
6. Why did sfu and ubc decide to locate their campuses out in the middle of nowhere? And why didn't they build a skytrain stop on sfu campus (or at least much closer) when extending the system?
ubc chose point grey after a province - wide survey. I'm not sure who they surveyed. It wasn't and isn't exactly in the middle of nowhere. Vancouver's downtown area is about the same size as ubc. I'm sure the though of future growth for the university played a part in the choice and in 1910, the year ubc moved to point grey, the downtown area was pretty full.
The site for sfu was chosen by it's first chancellor. Perhaps he liked the idea of higher learning being on a mountain? However most likely it was a decision about size of available land, closest to an urban centre.
As for skytrain? Money and ridership??
7. Why does commercial drive development just completely disappear south of 12th avenue? It's so dense and vibrant and then...nothing.
natural progression. Commercial drive turns into victoria drive just a few blocks past 12th ave. I'm also guessing the ravine and railway tracks that bisect commercial drive also had something to do with it.
8. Why is the area around the stadium so confusing to walk around? Is it just me? I get lost there as a pedestrian all the time.
they're working on it lol. Yes it is a bit of a maze, but when you have a elevated viaduct built earlier and two huge stadiums plunked down around it, it's going to a weird mix of steps, circular roads and crossways coming from the cambie street bridge.
10. Why didn't they extend the skytrain one stop to stanley park from waterfront? Everyone wants to go there.
the intent was to link skytrain to the seabus. Again probably money. A stop to stanley park would most likely be welcomed by most.
11. Why is city hall so far from downtown? And vgh? Was this an intentional choice to spread out civic infrastructure?
the city hall site was chosen by the mayor of the time, gerry mcgeer. It was controversial at the time but his vision was to have the city hall overlook vancouver, as it does, to encourage the city to grow further out.
Then it may have seemed to be far out, but in reality it's a four minute subway ride or car trip over the cambie street bridge.
I remember reading somewhere that the burrard street bridge was built to have the city hall at one end, which of course never happened.
The vgh site was chosen in 1906 and city hall in the 1930's, so there is no connection as far as i know between the two site.
12. Why are all the outdoor clothing/sports stores clustered on broadway between main and cambie? It's great if you are comparison shopping for athletic wear, not so great if you want to buy anything else.
birds of a feather. Mountain equipment co-op was the first i believe, after moving from 4th ave.
13. Why does kingsway feed on to 7th avenue at main? 7th isn't a major street.
7th is where main street ends and kingsway begins so that may have something to do with it. If you look at a map you can see how the roads path changes at that intersection.
14. Do we really need the zoned fare system? It's hard to incentivize transit use in lower-density areas if we make it basically as expensive as driving/owning a car.
many metros around the world use zones. It seems a fair way ( pun intended ) to charge for transit. The further you travel the more you pay. Having one zone for such a large area would make it more expensive for those who want to travel in one zone. That wouldn't be too popular for the majority of transit users.
Correction on number 13. Main street of course does not end at the beginning of Kingsway. Main street from 7th down and Kingsway all the way to New Westminster used to called Westminster Avenue, so that little twist in the road is most likely from that time and is why Kingsway is on an angle. Shortest distance between New West and Vancouver.
I believe when the Skytrain goes underground after Stadium, it uses an old pre-existing mining tram line tunnel. I agree there should be more than just three stops downtown.
I believe when the Skytrain goes underground after Stadium, it uses an old pre-existing mining tram line tunnel. I agree there should be more than just three stops downtown.
Vancouver is ****ed up....that is why...and there is no other explanation for it.
Too many politicians with their head up their ass, inhaling their own farts has brought severe damage done to this city - and it just keeps going.
The questions you ask...we all ask....and we will never truly understand - even if we learned the meaning of life....we will never know those answers which you seek...
so just carry on and understand this...Vancouver is ****ed and there is no undoing of it!
1. When Horseshoe Bay was built the Ferry System was seen as an extension of the Highway System, that's why it's on Highway 1. Tsawwassen was built all the way in Delta because it's the closest point on the mainland to Victoria and Swartz Bay. There was talk of a terminal on Sea Island at one point but that's all Federal Land.
5. That area was used as the staging area for the Molson Indy Until 2004. Granted not much as happened since then perhaps it will when they decide what to do with the Viaducts.
6. The climb up to SFU has very steep grades, and it would have been very cost prohibitive to design the system to route up Burnaby Mountain.
11. Vancouver's early development progressed by buying land from the CPR. You can tell where there were different purchases west of Burrard St. because the minor streets don't line up. Planners put these important buildings on the edges of these annexes rather than demolishing the already built up area.
Horseshoe bay is only 20 to 30 minutes from downtown, so not that far really. Tsawwassen ( if you want to sound like a true local then don't pronounce the t ) is quite far and a bit of a pain i agree.
Horseshoe bay is only 20 to 30 minutes from downtown, so not that far really. Tsawwassen ( if you want to sound like a true local then don't pronounce the t ) is quite far and a bit of a pain i agree.
Don't pronounce the T? It's the s that is silent.
I was brought up to pronounce it " sah way sen " . This BC Ferries Blog goes back and forth on the different ways to pronounce it.
It could be generational, since I was brought up here in the 1960's.
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My thoughts
