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Dark Side: Nobody ever really makes a big deal out of my choices either. Sometimes I get the odd strange question, but I've never had anybody flat out argue with me about it or want to turn a discussion about my choices into an argument. Maybe it's the circles I travel in?
Most people are more curious than anything. If they're passing judgement, they sure don't tell it to my face!
The BEST thing is though, when Non-Veg*ns try Tofu or a Vegetarian product for the first time and are pleasantly surprised! I just find a lot of people under the misconception that Veg*ns just eat raw lettuce and carrot or something.
Thanks, that never would have occurred to me. I was guessing it had something to do with the auto-censor here which blocks certain words.
Being a wordsmith who likes to play with language, my suggestion would be veg'ans, which is a valid contraction for vegetarians, so it could be read either way.
The term "cruelty-free" is in common usage in the veg*n community, as well as the companies that market to it. Here's a brief history of the term cruelty-free, and here's a site on shopping cruelty-free.
IMHO, your reaction to missik's use of the term says more about your attitude on the subject than it does about hers.
Thank you for posting this Dark! It should be helpful to anyone seeking to to live a more healthy and compassionate lifestyle!
Over the years I've shared many meals at restaurants or public events or in private homes with zen priests or buddhist monks, who were all vegetarians. A number of times I saw them offered dishes that were prepared with meat, which they declined with a smile and a cheerful "no thank you."
I never saw any of them ever get defensive about being vegetarian, or express disgust, or criticize their host or try to convert anyone to their point of view. And there was never any upset generated, just a quiet acceptance. They never made anyone else wrong, never made anyone uncomfortable, so there was nothing for others to push back against.
I wish I could say the same for all the vegetarians I've known and loved and lived with, but it simply has not been the case. I wish I could say I was always so wise and accepting myself, but that hasn't been the case either. Yet I think there are valuable lessons to be learned from those monks.
* Are you at peace with yourself about being vegetarian? In my experience a surprising number of people are not. If you are using your food choices to make yourself right and make others wrong you are not at peace.
* Are you constantly in conflict about living in a world that is overwhelmingly NOT vegetarian, and may well never be? In the US and Europe about 10% of the population is vegetarian. Are you setting yourself up to be in constant conflict with the other 90%? If so, you are not at peace. Are you a vegetarian because you like being an "outsider." If so, you are not at peace.
* Can you be just as happy for people who eat meat and prosper as you are for people who do not eat meat and prosper? If not, you are not at peace.
* Can you accept the possibility that vegetarianism is not right for everyone? Are you honest enough to acknowledge that some vegetarians are not healthy? And that some meat eaters are?
* Can you live with the choices you make without justifying yourself, or trying to force them on others?
Etc., etc., etc. See my point? It's a personal choice whether or not to be a vegetarian. It's also a personal choice whether or not to be in conflict with others over that choice. If you project hostility or defensiveness about your choice you are almost certain to provoke reactions from others. But if you are "attitude free" as well as "meat free," like the monks I mentioned earlier, I think very few people are likely to take exception to your choice.
A qualified Yes to all but in terms of "prosper"? I would wish that they would stop hurting animals. I love and like many people who are omnivores.
I do not think that many omnivores are as healthy as most vegetarians.
What I see, increasingly: is defensiveness on the part of the people who are omnivore not veg*ns!
I have never apologized for not causing cruelty to animals. And, I will not white wash what happens to animals when they are processed into YOUR FOOD!
As some one on another forum commented when I mentioned that a rodeo, which I think is inherently cruel event, was ...well inherently cruel... "this is what happens all the time in the cattle industry...It's what brings meat to your dinner table and mine!"
I know that. And he assumed to much. No meat is brought to my dinner table.
Am I at PEACE WITH WHAT I EAT? you bet I am. At peace with what some people think it is OK to do to animals?
LBF---if you don't care why someone is a vegetarian and you don't know anyone who is and you aren't one, why does this section of CD interest you? Of course you have the right to read anything and write anything on the forum---just curious as to why you even read this thread if vegetarianism holds no interest. I'm sure there are lots of worthwhile posts on the Nebraska forum, but since I've never been there, don't know anyone from there, and am likely never to go there, I don't read or post on the thread.
(And not meaning any offense to Nebraskans---don't know why I came up with that state...)
This^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!! If people feel annoyed by vegetarians or are disinterested in their way of eating why visit this sub forum?
Great analogy! I'll add a little. What If you went on a regional forum of say a very cold state? Say Maine. People who post there either like ME and live there, are originally from there, are thinking about moving or traveling there.
What if a poster said "Well I don't like cold places!" "I don't even want to visit Maine!" "I knew some one with a Maine accent and it was so annoying!" "It might not be healthy to live in Maine - it's so cold and you don't get enough sunshine - you may have a vitamin D deficiency or suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder" or if you must live there, you need to balance it out with at least a month every winter in Florida"
And these poor people from ME are going to feel attacked. Because they like it there and they are on this forum because they want to talk and learn about Maine.Not be attacked by people who hate the place.
I just came up with Maine. Nothing against it and it looks beautiful.
This^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!! If people feel annoyed by vegetarians or are disinterested in their way of eating why visit this sub forum?
Great analogy! I'll add a little. What If you went on a regional forum of say a very cold state? Say Maine. People who post there either like ME and live there, are originally from there, are thinking about moving or traveling there.
What if a poster said "Well I don't like cold places!" "I don't even want to visit Maine!" "I knew some one with a Maine accent and it was so annoying!" "It might not be healthy to live in Maine - it's so cold and you don't get enough sunshine - you may have a vitamin D deficiency or suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder" or if you must live there, you need to balance it out with at least a month every winter in Florida"
And these poor people from ME are going to feel attacked. Because they like it there and they are on this forum because they want to talk and learn about Maine.Not be attacked by people who hate the place.
I just came up with Maine. Nothing against it and it looks beautiful.
I agree. However, I think what people respond to sometimes are comments like, "The other 49 states are ugly and boring" and "People who don't live in Maine are so backward." They get defensive. There are also some comments like "Maine is the wealthiest state, so of course it is the best place to live," and then they argue with people who point out that it's not the wealthiest state--although still a fine place to call home.
And, of course, some people just like to fight.
I haven't had anybody argue with me yet, but I am new to this way of eating (less than a year). I have had several people ask me why, but I am not very comfortable talking about it lest I appear judgmental. Perhaps it's easier to say something like, "It's against my religion," because then you're following a rule and you are not announcing your beliefs so much. My dad doesn't eat mammals because he believes they are higher life forms (semi-sentient) and killing them is wrong. It can't be easy to say that to a casual acquaintance, perhaps someone at a party who is in the middle of eating the little ham quiches. I'll have to ask him what he says ... it's been 25-ish years so I'm sure he's run into the situation once or twice!
I agree. However, I think what people respond to sometimes are comments like, "The other 49 states are ugly and boring" and "People who don't live in Maine are so backward." They get defensive. There are also some comments like "Maine is the wealthiest state, so of course it is the best place to live," and then they argue with people who point out that it's not the wealthiest state--although still a fine place to call home.
And, of course, some people just like to fight.
I haven't had anybody argue with me yet, but I am new to this way of eating (less than a year). I have had several people ask me why, but I am not very comfortable talking about it lest I appear judgmental. Perhaps it's easier to say something like, "It's against my religion," because then you're following a rule and you are not announcing your beliefs so much. My dad doesn't eat mammals because he believes they are higher life forms (semi-sentient) and killing them is wrong. It can't be easy to say that to a casual acquaintance, perhaps someone at a party who is in the middle of eating the little ham quiches. I'll have to ask him what he says ... it's been 25-ish years so I'm sure he's run into the situation once or twice!
You know what Julia? There is chauvinism on every special interest sub forum. And regional sub forum.
We have these forums, as you know, because these things are dear to our hearts. You might say we are passionate about these topics and regions. That would be true and accurate.
We don't need to lie about why we are vegetarian. Honestly, I have never heard of anything so preposterous in my life. I am a veg*n - and I am proud of that. Hee is a place where I should be able to talk about that and to educate others who want to learn about things veg*n.
Another non veg*n poster suggested that we hide this while at social events. Why would we do this?
So that at a party we are asked repeatedly why we do not wish to partake of this or that animal dish?
To obfuscate the facts and confuse our host? It's easier. It's the truth. And if you, and the others are comfortable - truly comfortable with what you eat there should be no problem.
Every person who eats meat and dairy should be comfortable with it. An increasing amount of people are not. In terms of the next generation, if my 18 year old son and his friends are any indication - about a third do not eat meat. Another quarter want to not eat meat. A quarter a vegans. And according to the Vegetarian Times, most younger converts to veg*nism, skip vegetarian and go right to vegan.
My sonis going to college in two weeks. The university, a normal state university - have a VEGAN OPTION AT EVERY MEAL! Not vegetarian - VEGAN!
This is not an ultra left wing college such as Reed, Bard or Evergreen State - all off which he almost went to. It's a Frat house, football playing State U, with some skaters and alt rock kids. A bunch of kids born in the mid 90s. They want their Tofu and veggie burgers and vegan pizza, And the university complies.
Quite reflective of what kids today want to eat. And what they do not.
I'm not sure of the source of your stats. I know that you have posted on another forum that you think that a vegetarian diet is dangerous. I noticed it but said nothing.
I will not apologize for compassion, nor will I pretend to be anything other than I am. AN ETHICAL VEGAN.
And this is a sub forum where people will crow about what they eat and don't eat.
Veganism isn't a disease, or anything to be ashamed of. I love being vegan. My life is richer, broad spectrum, healthy,and I meet highly evolved people when I attend vegan gatherings. I might ruffle a few feathers when I say that I don't enjoy watching an overweight joe sixpack stuffing his face with animal flesh while his kids and wife devour a box of twinkies, boston cream pies, cheap ice cream, greaseburgers, pork chops, steak, candy bars, jumbo sodas, etc. I wouldn't be able to have a coherent discussion about anything with such people. I have had people ask me how I stay so skinny, and of course I don't say "pills" I say that I am vegan. They usually listen a bit, and go back to munching animal flesh, and drinking cow secretions,(bovine milk) and eating hen periods.(eggs). I won't waste time on them other than to say "Google it" if they want to learn about veganism. I also suggest they study heart disease, obesity, diabetes, and coronary disease. I'm too old, and too happy to deal with hostile people who mock a healthy lifestyle, and love for animals like both are a sign of weakness. Health is strength. Love of life is strength.
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I just find a lot of people under the misconception that Veg*ns just eat raw lettuce and carrot or something.
