[Logs and Dogs]

Originally Posted by Saltatrix

I've spent plenty of time in western ma, nh, and vt- while each have their strong points and great beauty (nh-vt)- i've concluded none hold a candle to the finger lakes/ithica area in central ny, in terms of the liberal/nature/farm mindset. Generally speaking there doesn't seem to be the tension between working class folks in ma and nh, and the rather conventional yet militant left-wingers in amherst/noho.

I think the tension between those classes arises not so much from pure disapproval of their approaches to life or lifestyle, but when two situations arise;

The first is when the utopian vision of everyone getting a “fair shake” (ie. handout programs, etc.) becomes a significant burden on the working class, who by definition are working and paying taxes to support such programs.

The second is when the liberal “peace, love and light” approach to life some how makes it’s way into legislation along with restrictions on the way the “working class” wants to live their lives. An example would be enacting legislation further limiting hunting, fishing, the use of wilderness areas etc. which does not allow people to follow in the footsteps of their ancestors the way they would like. This type of “we know better than you” and “we’re here now and you can’t do it the way you always have” approach is what causes tension.

Of course these are just my opinions based on following this type of thing for a while now.

[Saltatrix]

Good points... Things change though, that's just the way it is. I could argue either side, but what comes to mind is some farmers or ranchers in the west who would dump their dead livestock into local creeks and rivers. Not trying to start an arguement here anyhow.

[vtvette]

Originally Posted by western mass and love it

I always get a kick of the vermont transplants here in MA who love to call us flatlanders and down our politics and way we go about life,and when you ask them why they left the glorious state of Vermont they always say jobs. But when they lived there they constantly voted down and rejected anything remotely close to change.

It's not just the transplants believe me! It's the same up here when people complain about high COL, Taxes, no decent jobs, then vote down any chance of change!!

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. I'm starting to believe many people here in VT are insane!

-FWIW, I was born and raised here.

[RobotGirl]

Your right, Vermont doesn't have NASCAR. New Hampshire used to own Vermont. New Hampshire has a bigger population (about 1 million, Vermont: about 500,000) making vermont the 49th smalleset populated state next to Wyoming. NH's largest city (Manchester) is larger than Vermont's largest city (Burlington) by 19 sq mi. NH also has Adam Sandler, Steven Tyler, Sarah Silverman, and Franklin Pierce. I honestly don't live in NH, I live in Tennesse. I've been to both places and I will soon move to NH when I get out of college.

[RunawayJim]

Originally Posted by RobotGirl

Your right, Vermont doesn't have NASCAR. New Hampshire used to own Vermont. New Hampshire has a bigger population (about 1 million, Vermont: about 500,000) making vermont the 49th smalleset populated state next to Wyoming. NH's largest city (Manchester) is larger than Vermont's largest city (Burlington) by 19 sq mi. NH also has Adam Sandler, Steven Tyler, Sarah Silverman, and Franklin Pierce. I honestly don't live in NH, I live in Tennesse. I've been to both places and I will soon move to NH when I get out of college.

Not sure how any of this makes one better than the other (in fact, I'd prefer a state without NASCAR over one with it).

Have you been to Manchester? Just sayin'...

[BickleTravis]

Originally Posted by RunawayJim

Not sure how any of this makes one better than the other (in fact, I'd prefer a state without NASCAR over one with it).

Have you been to Manchester? Just sayin'...

A race track somewhere really does undermine the quality of life. The tracks in VT make it really difficult to live here. Thank god the drivers aren't professionals. Then there might be rednecks here.
Personally, I'd prefer a state that doesn't have farmer's markets to a state that does.

[Chadd1014]

Originally Posted by db77

Vermont is kind of like the San Fransisco of the East Coast. A place full of kooky liberals who look down on everyone else.

Vermont is anti business and they're proud of the fact that there are no jobs or industry there because hey "we have covered bridges and love mother earth."

Unless you a hippie 60's relic still holding a grudge against Nixon or some other type of pothead on welfare you probably won't like Vermont.

Your kids go to college in Boston?

My advice to you is to find a nice little town in southeatern NH to settle down in and forget about Vermont.

This post made me laugh!

I've been in Vermont a couple of decades now and love it but my first impression was the same and to this day still is.

San Fransisco...North

Soon we will have the pot clinics too.

[DauntlessDan]

Originally Posted by ex-springfielder

As someone who was born, raised and lived in Vermont for nearly 60 years I believe there are now two Vermonts, the old Vermont where people work hard to survive and mind there own business and the new Vermont with it's mainly transplanted people who want to make Vermont into their own image.

When I grew up vermont wasn't an image, it was what it was...our homes and our lives. Now it's a playground for out-of-staters who have good paying jobs that afford them the opportunity to own and enjoy property in Vermont away from the city the dislike but gives them the ability. It's also a haven for liberals/progressives who have changed the state from it's staunch conservative roots into something old time Vermonters are ashamed of. A state full of rule sand regulations, highly taxed and over governed where you can't change the color of your house without a permit. Where politicians who think they are smarter than you take your money because they think they will spend it wiser. A state where liberals want to take your hard earned money and give it to people too lazy to work...but then it's so easy to spend someone else's money.

Vermont is not the Vermont that graced the cover of so many Vermont lifes and no longer has the people of lore who would say "you can't get there from here" but stop to pull your car out of the ditch with their tractor and refuse compensation.

The new Vermont is made up of people who want to live the Vermont spirit but have no idea what it really is...it was the people, and those people for the most part are gone.

Amen Ex-Springfielder. My father was born and raised in Vermont as was his father. My brother and I grew up and attended school in a small, rural Vermont town. As did my wife and her family. We haven't really lived in vermont for 17 years but have family there and everytime we go back to visit we are astonished how more it has changed into somewhere we no longer recognize.

[Chadd1014]

Originally Posted by DauntlessDan

Amen Ex-Springfielder. My father was born and raised in Vermont as was his father. My brother and I grew up and attended school in a small, rural Vermont town. As did my wife and her family. We haven't really lived in vermont for 17 years but have family there and everytime we go back to visit we are astonished how more it has changed into somewhere we no longer recognize.

I like it a lot!!

It beats where I grew up on the South Shore of MA.about 15 miles South of Boston.Now that place has changed over the last 20 years.

I live in Burlington but travel all over the state.

[Ulysses61]

I'm a Californian who spends 3 weeks every summer in Vermont and New Hampshire to hike.

I will give you my opinion, and I hope I don't offend any New Hampshire native.

For me, there is utterly no comparison between the states. Vermont is rural, clean, tidy, no billboards, no junk.. just a rural, beautiful paradise.

New Hampshire is none of those things, IMO. Tons of ill-kempt, junky homes with trash all around, endless strip malls... ugh.

Vermont is paradise. And anyone that tells you they can't immediately see the difference the moment they cross into NH must be either biased or blind. There are small pockets of NH which are nice, uncluttered and beautiful. But most of Vermont is like this.