Diversity, community in Vermont (Burlington, Colchester: houses, neighborhood, pre-school)
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Move where you want, be prepared to work and be a productive and honest member of the community. Don't at least initially come across as having agendas and accept your new neighbors for who they are. If you are of a very sensitive nature and easily bruise and succomb to frustration when faced with adversity then yes you should exercise due care in the choice of your new community. For some diversity is a problem and takes them out of their desired element and comfort zone, for others it provides a lifestyle of satisfaction and growth. Different likes and dislikes for different folks and a whole variety of places to choose to be able to live and work is what afterall makes America what it is.
I know that most people in Vermont are pretty progressive, but that still doesn't make them black!!!
Any people of color on this forum?
Marcav (Mary), I very much appreciate your directness with this issue because it is what I have needed to learn more about. As a POC and raising kids who will be the contemporary experiment on the multiracial experience in America, I am looking for this level of discussion that gets beyond "oh, Vermont is open." Sure, I have lived in many an "open" place, and often that openness has been accompanied by a critical mass of POCs, and even distinct ethnic groups that go beyond African-American, Latino, or Asian Pacific American. It's been enriching and affirming to live in places where you can live and work among people who are Korean, Cambodian, Japanese, Hmong, Thai, Filipino, Chinese, Taiwanese, Asian Indian, etc. and can see the difference without needing to ask (and not assume we are not from the US!). It's not like that everywhere, tho. And, that is the point of my direct question.
I think I am someone who can handle transitions effectively as well as would know the disproportionate burden POCs carry on the "mutual effort" in building relationships, and believe me, I can speak from adversity with many an example, as it relates to being made to feel "other" (when obviously I don't WANT to feel that way). In this vein, I appreciate your comments, Jay.Dee, and your risk in sharing your thoughts on living among the real diversity (and sadly, lack thereof, in terms of race/ethnicity) in Vermont. That's real, so thanks!
The absence of any depth of discussion on the diversity topic early on is telling, and perhaps I expect too much, but then again...as a citizen of this country, I am entitled no more than anyone else to have my holidays celebrated where I live or to have schools recognize legitimately the foods I eat or to organize as people of color to find support and community, which interestingly seems to the common thread that makes Vermont life unique. I would think that Vermonters would find value in POCs sitting together in a town hall talking about stuff by seeing the importance of community. So, I am a bit surprised at the spotlight on illegal immigration, although that could be a signal of a pervasive national problem -- spurned from our national leaders -- from which Vermont is not immune.
Nevertheless, I continue to be somewhat encouraged by the many thoughts here. And, I am realistic that I can't expect Washington, DC, or San Francisco overnight in Vermont. So...here's another question in the spirit of MRVphotog's introduction of the SIT program (thanks, by the way!): if I were to come to the Burlington area, I would have a strong interest in working in or building a youth empowerment program that assists kids with identity awareness, community building, social justice training, and leadership development. Are there orgs that do this sort of thing OR would there be genuine interest from the community on this sort of thing?
Also, marcav (Mary), I meant to say earlier that if you moved back to Vermont, there would be lots of opportunities for us to have play dates and swapping of Filipino food among great conversation. I wish you luck in your transition, and hope to hear more about how you make your decision (we are looking at a 2-4 year window for our move, as we are also concerned about safety issues in big city, while we are torn about leaving the comfort with diversity we currently experience now...because here there are many people and communities that are Black and Asian American and multi-racial, and Latino and gay and Muslim, etc.).
if I were to come to the Burlington area, I would have a strong interest in working in or building a youth empowerment program that assists kids with identity awareness, community building, social justice training, and leadership development. Are there orgs that do this sort of thing OR would there be genuine interest from the community on this sort of thing?
Thanks for engaging us all on this topic!
There is definately such a program as I remember listening to an interview on our local radio station about a year ago with the Director. It sounded like a great program which was doing great things with youth at risk in Btown and other parts of the state. The only problem is I can't remember the name. I am sure if you did a little googling you would find it.
The Office of Community & Economic Development had initiated a racism study circle program in Burlington a few years ago, but I don't know how active its been. As part of this I believe there was some program that focused on an after school program for children of color, but I can't remember what organization that was. Baird perhaps? Vermont also has a growing refugee population, and my plan is to volunteer with the refugee resettlement program when I move up.
I remember a story my sister told me of a little AA girl in our Vermont community who upon laying eyes upon a visiting gospel choir performing in the elementary school, said something to the effect that "those people have dark skin", as if she had never seen this before. The response from the principal was something on the order of, "isn't this great, that she feels so much part of the (larger, white) community." In other words, that that little girl identified with the white community to such a degree that her own cultural heritage was invisible to her. It dismayed me that both the girl's white parents and the principle had abdicated their responsibility for ensuring that the child felt grounded in her own race in order to negotiate the future challenges she will have to face within the dominant culture.
Being gracious and accomodating to poc is one thing; taking ownership of the concept of white privilege is a whole other thing altogether. I live in a diversified community, work in an inner city hospital, and have friends of different ethnicities; but it is my son who for me is unraveling the many layers and complexities of unconscious racism that just comes with the dominant culture. All the good intentions of the white folk in Vermont can't help my son understand his blackness, and that's what feeds my angst!
Being gracious and accomodating to poc is one thing; taking ownership of the concept of white privilege is a whole other thing altogether. I live in a diversified community, work in an inner city hospital, and have friends of different ethnicities; but it is my son who for me is unraveling the many layers and complexities of unconscious racism that just comes with the dominant culture. All the good intentions of the white folk in Vermont can't help my son understand his blackness, and that's what feeds my angst! Mary
I think that it is pretty bad that you question the people of Vermont as being racist but then talk about "white privilege"-excuse me but that is a racist thing to say. And before I get bashed you have no idea what race/ethnicity I am. White privilege. Every white person has it better than every body else just because they are born white-cut me a brake.
Then you make another comment that good intentions of "white folk". What the heck does that mean? Your angst against people being nice? White people are responsible for him understand his blackness? What about people treating others like human beings regardless of the color of their skin. Isn't that what MLK wanted? It seems to me you have preconcieved notions and that to me is racist. Just because a state is majority white they are racist?
How about be a decent person, don't expect to come into a town and change it. Work hard, don't judge others and be a good neighbor. That is what I want and what I think a majority of Americans want. Move some where because you like it not because you want to make it different.
If you think Vermonters are that racist and priviledged why would you want to live here?
By the way, some of the most diverse places I have lived and visited were the most racist.
I remember a story my sister told me of a little AA girl in our Vermont community who upon laying eyes upon a visiting gospel choir performing in the elementary school, said something to the effect that "those people have dark skin", as if she had never seen this before. The response from the principal was something on the order of, "isn't this great, that she feels so much part of the (larger, white) community." In other words, that that little girl identified with the white community to such a degree that her own cultural heritage was invisible to her. It dismayed me that both the girl's white parents and the principle had abdicated their responsibility for ensuring that the child felt grounded in her own race in order to negotiate the future challenges she will have to face within the dominant culture.
Being gracious and accomodating to poc is one thing; taking ownership of the concept of white privilege is a whole other thing altogether. I live in a diversified community, work in an inner city hospital, and have friends of different ethnicities; but it is my son who for me is unraveling the many layers and complexities of unconscious racism that just comes with the dominant culture. All the good intentions of the white folk in Vermont can't help my son understand his blackness, and that's what feeds my angst!
Mary
With all due respect your post screams a high sense of paranoia and alot of insecurity with your own place in our culture. To vent it thru 2 little kids is irrational and very dismaying.
I like alot of people in Vermont or anywhere else for that matter do not see colors at all. A white kid, a black kid or a hispanic kid are just kids, nothing more, nothing less. Kids are kids, they say things, understand, accept that. Sorry the good intentions of white folk in Vermont feeds your angst. It shouldn't, it should provide comfort. Just my .02.
I think that it is pretty bad that you question the people of Vermont as being racist but then talk about "white privilege"-excuse me but that is a racist thing to say.
1)Where in my post did I refer to Vermonters being racist? 2) White privilege is a sociological construct that simply describes the historical, economic and cultural determinants that have resulted in oppression, racism and poverty for whole subsets of humanity. You do not have to hold racist beliefs to have benefitted from white privilege. I would suggest googling the term to find out more about it.
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Then you make another comment that good intentions of "white folk". What the heck does that mean? Your angst against people being nice?White people are responsible for him understand his blackness? What about people treating others like human beings regardless of the color of their skin. Isn't that what MLK wanted? It seems to me you have preconcieved notions and that to me is racist. Just because a state is majority white they are racist?
3) My "angst" has nothing to do with people being nice, it has to do with ensuring that children of color are provided the opportunities to have other people of color model and transmit cultural values. I will give you an example: The last time I was in Vermont I saw a caucasion mother with a black child. I am sure that mother loved her little girl very much and vice versa; but the child's hair was absolutely wild. Now that might not mean much to a white person, and maybe her mother liked her hair "free", but in black culture that is considered neglectful and uncared for. Like it or not, hair is considered very important in the black community. I know this because my son is in an AA daycare, and his black caregivers are constantly advising me on his hair (when to cut it, how to oil it and condition it etc.) and he's a boy! If I were mother to that girl, it would be my obligation as a parent to either learn how to do her hair, or find someone else to do it. I would also ask you this; if a father was raising a motherless daughter, don't you think at some point he would have to get some female help to explain things to her that he by virtue of his gender could not? Neither one of these examples has to do with racism or sexism, it has to do with what's best for your child.
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With all due respect your post screams a high sense of paranoia and alot of insecurity with your own place in our culture. To vent it thru 2 little kids is irrational and very dismaying.
I like alot of people in Vermont or anywhere else for that matter do not see colors at all. A white kid, a black kid or a hispanic kid are just kids, nothing more, nothing less. Kids are kids, they say things, understand, accept that. Sorry the good intentions of white folk in Vermont feeds your angst. It shouldn't, it should provide comfort. Just my .02.
4) Well yes, I've heard that before. If you are white you don't have to think about color. Have you ever heard any white person describe themselves as white? My son is a cute kid, he is 2 years old. Everyone loves him. Fast forward 25 years from now. He's walking down a dark alley late at night. The white person coming towards him crosses to the other side of the street.
He's 14 years old. He goes into the 7-11 the same time as a white kid. Who's the store detective going to keep an eye on? He's 18 years old and asks a white girl to the prom. What will her family think? I am the white parent of a black child. The reality is that racism exists. It is my duty as a parent to prepare my child for these incidents that will happen, and the best way IMO is to as much as possible make him proud of his roots and ethnicity. The best way to do that is for him to be around other poc, for as much as I want to protect him, neither I nor any other white person can do it by just being nice.
By the way, my family has lived in Vermont since the 1960s; I lived there for about 20 years and own property there. I think I know Vermont pretty well and consider myself a Vermonter if not by birth, by spirit. The point of my thread was not to categorize Vermonters as racist, since I tend to think of them as the more progressive citizens in this country. I am just deliberating on what is the best way to bring up my son. So, please, if you do not walk in my shoes I respectfully ask that you not pass judgement.
Hi all! We're back. If you remember, my family and I were debating whether I should go to medical school here in VT or down in Atlanta, GA. We moved from Massachusetts. Well, we're here and medical school is tough but I'm LOVING it.
On the issue of race and Burlington, I would say that if you plan on staying in Burlington-proper, you might be okay. Because of the Refugee Resettlement program, you SEE more black people but the quality of life (American standard) is like what you'd find in an urban ghetto. I feel like they've stuck all the ethnic people in the run-down areas of town. But, some people might think: "Well, at least it's better where they came from." That's not a good enough excuse for me.
I'm afro-american, my partner is Caucasian and our son is mixed-race. Within the first day of living in VT I was called a "******". We moved to an apartment where the neighbors told the kids that lived next door "not to play with those ******s." No one has physically threatened me. They'd be sadly mistaken to do so anyway. I'm the 2007 New England Golden Gloves women champ for goodness sake.
As for as diversity, I would say that VT (read: Burlington) is getting better. Some of the surrounding towns are inhabited by closed minded people. But, they're closeminded to all forms of "flatlanders". It's a really BEAUTIFUL but ignorant state if you ask me. Even riding the bus I find myself feeling out of place: I'm a dark-skinned female wearing my medical school badge and constantly studying some abstract subject (currently Cellular, Molecular Biology with a biochemistry focus). However, most if not ALL the Caucasians on the bus don't appear to have gotten beyond a high school degree. That's not being judgmental; it's an observation. However, I know they judge me poorly by the color of my skin. I don't let it get to me, though. I know I'm a progressive individual. As long as their comments aren't overheard by my son (who's very perceptive) and no one trys to hurt him, I'm fine. My partner and I are educating him on differences and appreciating uniqueness. Once he's age appropriate, that will extend to race.
We live in University housing that contains a TON of interracial families. It's amazing! But, I also know that we are spoiled in that this isn't to be expected any where else in VT.
I've actually found Waterbury (26 miles south of Burlington) to be a VERY friendly ton with progressive people (my own experience). It's still very Caucasian, but everyone is friendly and I don't feel judged based on my color.
I would say that if you plan on coming here, you have to visit and make a judgment for yourself as to how much "silent" discrimination you can take (the obvious looks, being followed around in stores). But, we've found a preschool for our 3 year old that has a fair amount of diversity. The people he's in contact with LOVE him and don't make race in issue (as far as I know). I don't think they treat him any different. Plus, he's about the most gorgeous kid you'll ever meet (not parental-bias, a consensus from people that meet us).
If you don't let the race issue and lack of diversity bother you, you might be okay. Through my medical school and other organizations, my partner and I and other people of color and their interracial partners are making it a point of educating people. We are strong in our own relationships and ethnic identities. I just think it'll take a while for the country (not just VT) to recognize race is a social construct that ignorance promotes. I even feel sorry for the people who throw racial slurs at me. It's not hurting me; it's hurting them more than anything to promote the ignorance for themselves and others.
Anyway, that's my two cents. I haven't been on because school is killer (but loving every aspect of it).
If you'd like more info on our experience, just send a personal message. We'll try to get back.
Marcav,
I understand what you're getting at. I don't think people read your initial post for it's sincerest intentions. That's also another thing I don't like about dialogue: people interpret what you say how they will. For those actually coming here to be enlightened, they'll get what you're saying. Other people are on the defensive. I can relate to that too. But, we all have to step back from our feelings and look at the bigger picture.
If you don't understand what someone is saying, don't attack. Ask for clarification of their meaning. That saves a ton of hurt feelings and egos.
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My Two Cents
