[goatwoodward]

Originally Posted by arel

What I want to know about are the cultural differences, the "feel" of the place. Does Burlington have an urban "feel"? Or does it feel like a large town? How yuppified is it? Do UVM students create drunken, rowdy crowds that cause problems? Does it have, or lack, the sense of intimacy they seem to have in Brattleboro? I have visited Brattleboro frequently within the past year. I have not been to Burlington in over a decade, perhaps more. Thinking about it now, Butlington didn't seem city-like to me. Maybe things have changed since then. Or maybe my view is skewed, considering that my point of reference is a very big city.

Burlington feels like a large town to me. Some Vermonters I know see it as a big city though, so I guess it depends on your perspective. I like it b/c as you said, it does have the arts, without the anonymity or size of a larger city. In fact, the people here are quite friendly. People say smile at you and sometimes say hello as you pass them on the street. (Something I'm still not used to.) I was sitting on the ground yesterday as my boyfriend got out a bandaid to put on a blister on my foot and 2 passersby within the few minutes I was there actually stopped to ask if I needed help or was hurt. All in all, it seems pretty intimate.

I'm not going to lie, there are disruptive parties. However, there's also a noise ordinance that if the police are called and can hear noise from the sidewalk, each resident on the lease is given a hefty fine, that increases with each offense. (My neighbor when I lived in the college ghetto got a $300, then a $500 fine in her one bedroom apartment.) The college parties are somewhat confined to "college ghetto" section of the Old North End during the summer. Once winter hits, the parties move to people's basements. Some "party passages" that students often travel on their way home/back to the dorms from the bars downtown are Pearl St. and Main St. So long as you avoid the college ghetto (loosely bordered by N. Champlain St., Pearl St., North St. & N. Willard St. - though Loomis and Hickok are often noisy above the N Willard border) and these main thoroughfares, you should be alright.

[arel]

I've just been thinking and calculating.

People have posted that you can hop on a plane at Burlington and be in NYC in 45 minutes. From Brattleboro, it takes approximately 4-5 hours to drive to NYC, depending on where you are going. (I find it can take 45-90 minutes to get from the city line in the Bronx to my home in Brooklyn.) Therefore, Burlington is actually closer to NYC in terms of travel time, even though it is further away in terms of actual distance.

Well...I just thought of this. You need, say, about 1/2 hour to get from your house to the airport. Then, you have to arrive 2 hours early. That makes 2 1/2 hours. Then the flight takes 45 minutes. That makes 3 1/4 hours. Then, once you land in NYC, it takes another hour to get to your destination. That makes 4 hours and 15 minutes. Add another 45 minutes for delays, extra time needed, etc., and you have 5 hours.

In 5 hours you would have arrived by car from Brattleboro, even if you stopped a few times. Instead of paying about $60 for your plane ticket, you would have paid the cost of half a tank of gas, plus perhaps a bridge toll (I use the Bronx Whitestone Bridge).

So in terms of time spent from door to door, there is little difference.

Of course, the experience is different. One difference is that you can be more passive if you fly. You are a passenger. Someone else is responsible for operating the vehicle. If you are tired, it is difficult to drive for 5 hours.

Another is the quality of the air you breathe en route.

Still another is the control you have en route. You are alone or with people of your choosing. You can stop and go as you please or even make a side trip. You are not controlled by schedules or reservations.

Also, when you drive, you don't have to deal with intrusive security. I'm not knocking the need for security, but I would prefer not to be intruded upon by strangers.

Whatever, I had been thinking of how I would have such easier access to NYC from Burlington than from Brattleboro. I thought of a 45 minute flight, as opposed to a 5 hour ride. But I had completely forgotten to think about the time spent before and after that 45 minute flight.

I wonder if frequent travelers between NYC and Burlington get a special pass that lets them through faster.

The Amtrak Vermonter goes between NYC and Burlington. It stops in Brattleboro. The train is good to have if you want to make the trip but do not want to drive. You may feel under the weather, or the car is broken, or you don't want to be saddled with the car in Manhattan.

The train ride between NYC and Brattleboro takes 6 hours. Long. An entire afternoon. And the train only goes once a day. If you are late, you have to wait for the next day or just drive.

It takes another 3 1/2 hours to travel between Brattleboro and Burlington. So, between NYC and Burlington, that's about 9 1/2 hours.

So, it is fastest to fly between Burlington and NYC. And it is fastest to drive between Brattleboro and NYC.

But it takes about the same time to fly between Burlington and NYC as it takes to drive between Brattleboro and NYC.

Whew. I feel better already.

[flu189]

So Arel, ya going to commute to NYC from Vt ? I wish I had your bucks. Actually, I go down to NY once a year and I drive because I visit places that using transit would not be either easy or safe. However, for a short one day visit, such as going to Shea, the option of flying is the way to go. Burlington to LaGuardia and a short bus ride and your there. Since 9-11 I have flown dozens of times from multiple locations and I must say I have never found security to be intrusive, but then again I have no issues with security and have nothing to hide so it has always been a breeze. Afterall, it's not like being first on the plane is going to get you where you are going any faster.

[vter]

The nice thing about the Burlington airport is that you don't need to get there 2 hours ahead...and hour is plenty. JFK on the other hand.....

[arel]

That's good to know. The airport's website said that passengers should arrive 2 hours early.

Whatever, that shaves 1 hour off the door to door trip, which very well might make it faster than the car trip from Brattleboro.

But coming back, well, JFK certainly is not BTV. Actually, I haven't been to BVT, but I have been to JFK and it is very busy.

I had had the idea you could take a day trip to and from NYC from Burlington. Looks like I was wrong.

[tkln]

From my house in Northeastern Queens, I make it to Brattleboro in 3 hours flat (granted, I also leave at 5am, which helps a LOT). I have, actually, made the drive from Stowe to my house in exactly 4 1/2 hours, without stopping. But I was alone and I was driving a huge SUV with the huge gas tank to go with it (it was a rental for moving furniture and stuff to the condo when we first bought it) - I was going on fumes by the time I got home, but still. It became a goal 3/4 of the way down, and I was happy when I made it.

Yeah, totally geeky but hey, it kept me occupied for the ride!

Normally, I make it to and from Stowe in exactly 5 hours, with one stop.

[arel]

It takes me about 30 minutes to get from my house to the Whitestone Bridge.

It takes me 2 hours to get to New Haven, via I-95, where I turn off to I-91. But now I take the Merritt and the Cross and bypass New Haven altogether. It's like cutting a corner, and I also avoid the bottleneck when I-91 ends. I timed it once, going from Brattleboro to NYC, and I discovered I saved about 30 minutes. It's also a more pleasant ride, but only during the day when I can see the scenery, and also the road. At night, I use the interstates, because the Merritt and the Cross are dark. It's hard to see the road, even with brights on. And on top of that, there are warnings about deer. I'm more comfortable dealing with the trucks than with the dark roads.

3 hours to Bratt, huh. That should inspire me to leave at 5 am, instead of in the afternoon.

I have driven (or ridden as a passenger) that early. It really does make a difference. The road congestion in NYC, and by the cities on the way to Vermont, can really slow you down. So can road construction.

[arel]

Originally Posted by flu189

So Arel, ya going to commute to NYC from Vt ? I wish I had your bucks. Actually, I go down to NY once a year and I drive because I visit places that using transit would not be either easy or safe. However, for a short one day visit, such as going to Shea, the option of flying is the way to go. Burlington to LaGuardia and a short bus ride and your there. Since 9-11 I have flown dozens of times from multiple locations and I must say I have never found security to be intrusive, but then again I have no issues with security and have nothing to hide so it has always been a breeze. Afterall, it's not like being first on the plane is going to get you where you are going any faster.

I wish I had my bucks, too.

I don't plan to commute to NYC from Vermont. .

I just feel a need to be able to get to NYC when I want to. It's NYC, and, until I cut the umbilical chord, it is home.

Actually, though, when I lived in Rhode Island, I only went to New York when I had to. I never even went to Providence unless I had to. But at that time Providence was a dump. Now, it is supposed to be much nicer.

[68vette]

It takes another 3 1/2 hours to travel between Brattleboro and Burlington. So, between NYC and Burlington, that's about 9 1/2 hours.

It's only 2 1/2 hours between Burlington and Brattleboro. My mom lives 45 minutes from Manhattan and it takes me 4 1/2 hours to get to her house from Colchester(just north of Burlington) with one food and gas stop. Add another hour and it's 5 1/2 hours to Manhattan from Burlington. I don't drive very fast. I usually drive about 70 mph(speed limit for 90% of the trip is 65). I have done this trip several hundred times in the past decade and I'm always within ten minutes of this time.

I have the train ride to a science. It's more expensive to take the train than drive, but I have done it several times. It is a long day. To save money I get off Amtrak in New Haven and take the Metro-North(the commuter train to Manhattan) into Grand Central and from there I can take a subway to where ever I want.

I just dropped my wife off at the airport in Burlington this afternoon and we were running a little tight on time. I got her there 20 minutes before the plane was to take off and she made the flight. The only issue she had was the luggage may or may not make the same flight, but she has a three hour layover at JFK and they told her her luggage would catch up with her there from a later flight. Burlington is a very small airport so there are usually very few times you will miss a flight when running late(the check-in counter is about 25 feet from the front door with no lines most of the time).

One more thing about the cold. It depends on where you live. Up near Burlington it's warmer than other areas in the state because of the lake. When I lived in Brookfield(central Vermont) it gets 20-30 below zero at night and warms up to about 10 below during the day. That lasts for a week or two straight in Feb. In Colchester we will see about 10-20 below at night and a little above zero during the day in the same time frame. Last winter was an odd winter. It was very warm up until Jan and then it got very cold. We had 20+ below zero days after Jan. Not all consecutive, but broken up throughout the remainder of the winter.

[flu189]

I regards to getting there from here, meaning VT to NYC or between points within VT most comments are geared towards speed of the trip which at times is essential. However, if you have the time there are numerous alternate routes which offer much to see along the way. Afterall, isn't that why folks come north is to see stuff. I have grown to dislike the I 91 and I 95 route to the point that I have not used it for the most part in twenty years now. If you have a few hours to spare I have found going through the Berkshires on either US 7 or Mass 8 to US 20 and then a short toll free hop on the Mass Pike to get to the Taconic Pkwy is more pleasant and relaxing. Then when you get south towards Brewster I 684, the Hutchinson, etc to either the Whitestone or Throgs Neck. As far as Intra VT routes go I mant times will take Vt 100 south and then Vt 30 to get to the other route junctions in Brattleboro. Again, this is if time permits, but over the years I have found that most of the fun of trips up here involves the ride getting to your destination.