[FrugalYankee]

Originally Posted by DauntlessDan

'New' Vermont Is Liberal, but 'Old' Vermont Is Still There - NYTimes.com

It never ceases to amaze me that the NYT enjoys a reputation as a high quality newspaper among people who are highly educated and yet they manage to publish utter tripe about Vermont, which is not even that far away from NYC.

The picture the NYT paints of Vermont as having been a red state which was altered by the influx of blue voters is only partially correct. They fail to mention that one of the key factors leading to the shift from GOP to Democratic voters was the near-impeachment of Richard Nixon. This gave a tremendous amount of tailwind to the Leahy campaign. And it had nothing to do with liberal transplants; even GOP stalwart Vermonters were fed up with the duplicity being practiced by the GOP at the national level, and it spilled over into the state elections.

It is also a serious omission IMO that the NYT fails to mention the "other" transplants (presumably because they do not read the NYT), namely the welfare recipients and drug dealers moving to Vermont from the NYC metro area. Perhaps they don't have much of an impact on voting.

And how about the state's increasing dependence on federal funding? Single-payer health care? "Yes please" say the voters, and fancy themselves being oh-so-progressive. I'd be more impressed if the VT single-payer system didn't depend on millions of federal dollars being pumped into it in order to make it viable.

I don't think outsiders ever understood Vermont politics, and both of these "Vermont" professors are not only from elsewhere, they clearly have an ax to grind. Fits right in with the NYT agenda.

[harry chickpea]

From the article:
There’s now something of a split between new, highly educated and left-leaning Vermonters and old, less-educated and more fiscally conservative Vermonters.

What an interesting statement. The editorializing in the new "journalism" is insidious. Shall we play with it a little to see what we come up with?

There’s now something of a split between new, highly indoctrinated and suit-wearing Vermonters and old, less-indoctrinated and more clothing conservative Vermonters.

There’s now something of a split between new Vermonters who think Holsteins give chocolate milk and old Vermonters who find them as "educated" as pasture patties.

There’s now something of a split between new trust fund babies and left-leaning Vermonters and old, less-wealthy and more fiscally starving Vermonters.

As an older, fiscally conservative CENTRIST ex-Vermonter, I regularly match my Vermont education - especially in civics and history and politics - with others around the country and find theirs wanting, as I find the education of the editor of the NYT article on this subject wanting.

What I find egregious by omission, is the lack of mention of reapportionment of the legislature. If there was a single political shift, it was from the voting base in the legislature being taken from the small towns and agricultural focus and placed with the cities who saw the land as a giant tourist park, the quaint buildings in villages an extension of the Shelburne Museum, and cows as icons in the new religion of gum-thickened New Jersey ice-cream with eco-sensitive packaging.

What the NYT staff may not understand is that while the physical land of Vermont remains in place, the values that it held dear since the days of an independent republic have not only remained in some of the hidden valleys, but diffused throughout the country in various waves of migration.

Sun thinker will find more of Vermont in north Alabama than in Florida. Having myself lived on the east coast of Florida for over twenty years, the changes there have changed it even more than Vermont was changed. North Alabama has world class fishing, rural rolling hills, and even a single week-a-year tiny ski slope, that constantly hopes for a day when the snow won't melt. Attitude-wise, north Alabama is more Vermont than Vermont these days.

[arctichomesteader]

I agree with harry and frugalyankee. And I still find myself scratching my head when these big city papers refer to "less educated" VT'ers, when VT has furnished the country with many intelligent people because this state has always valued education. John Deere, Thomas Davenport, Thaddeus Fairbanks, for example. The modern conservation movement basically started with George Perkins Marsh (his book inspired Theodore Roosevelt, Gifford Pinchot, and others). What they're really doing is denigrating people of a rural background and those with more conservative or libertarian politics. I just had to help two "educated" NYC'ers today, they didn't know how to use a map yet were deep in the national forest.

I don't think Nixon necessarily doomed this state to be so blue. Vermont went for Reagan later on. It was the influx of outsiders and the end of one town one vote in the legislature. I think the latter more than anything harmed rural areas across the country. The Congress has the same structure our legislature once had, one house based on population and the other giving each state (town in the legislature) equal say, to balance things out. There's no balance anymore. But the big city progressives who had control of the federal courts in the 60's intended for that to be the case.

[Sun Thinker]

One thing great about real life is that people talk far less about politics than they do on the Internet

[pauldorell]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

...I still find myself scratching my head when these big city papers refer to "less educated" VT'ers...What they're really doing is denigrating people of a rural background and those with more conservative or libertarian politics.

I thought you might be interested in reading what a Vermonter, Zadock Thompson, wrote in 1848:

Though the fathers of Vermont were not liberally educated, most of them had shared to some extent in the benefits of the excellent system of common school education, for which New England has always been distinguished; and though not learned, few of them were wholly illiterate. Nearly all were able to read and write a fair hand, and were sufficiently acquainted with the common rules of arithmetic to become correct accountants. Few of them were versed in the rules of grammar, but they all had sufficient knowledge of their mother tongue to be able to make their meaning understood, and many there were among them who could wield with effect the quill, or the sword, or the axe, as circumstances required. The writings of these men, their first attempts at legislation, and various other memorials, which have been handed down to us, afford conclusive proof of the possession of intellect and talent of a high order. But they were like marble from the quarry, roughly hewn, which exhibits the strength and value of the material, but in which delicate veins and colors and shades have not been brought out and exhibited in all their pleasing variety by the skill of the polisher.

The New York Times isn't completely wrong. They're just journalists: what do you expect?

[sovertennis]

Having lived here for 50+ years, I will tell you that the only time I'm warm or relieved from the tedium of one cold, cloudy day after another from Nov-April is when I'm xc skiing or snowshoeing. The warm (ha! there's a laugh) months are plagued by rain and bugs (deerflies and gnats).

It's very expensive to live here, and I'm asking myself "for what?" If you don't live in Burlington, the access to anything resembling culture is minimal, at best. Socially, people are very decent but also tend to be remote. Economically, the state (like many others) is struggling, but due to our disappearing manufacturing base combined with onerous regulations preventing new business from coming here, I don't see much chance of a turn around anytime soon.

[Dawn C]

Originally Posted by Why_Am_I_Here

Cost of living is HIGH. Not as high as Florida, but still high. Property taxes very high (3 bed 2 bath house could be any where from 3000-5000+)

Snow= any where from end of October (sometimes September) till late April/May. Jan-Feb COLD COLD (below zero...). Summers will see a few 90 degree days, humidity is low compared to the south..

Jobs..Vermont has become "anti" business so to speak, lots of special interest groups fighting progression to save this or that bird..tree...insect...

With a CJ degree there are a few "busy" LEOs that may give you some experience (Burlington, Rutland), the Sheriffs in most of the state provide more court security and process serving..

You hit VT right on the money. I have a CJ degree, good luck trying to find a job, well, at least in northern VT. There is not any unless you want to work in the prison as a correctional officer. Lower VT has a few more jobs but quite frankly, this state is the type of state to welcome retirees etc., not, the younger type who want a career etc. They say they do but then they make living here so darn hard that a high percentage of young people move out of state.

Vt is a great state IF you have the money to afford to live here AND can handle the cold AND don't mind the government up your butts telling you what to do. On the news a week or so ago was VT considering making people register their pedal bikes if ridden on the road. Plus, they just passed, I believe, ANOTHER gas tax.

[Sun Thinker]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

From the article:
[color="Navy"]
Sun thinker will find more of Vermont in north Alabama than in Florida. Having myself lived on the east coast of Florida for over twenty years, the changes there have changed it even more than Vermont was changed. North Alabama has world class fishing, rural rolling hills, and even a single week-a-year tiny ski slope, that constantly hopes for a day when the snow won't melt. Attitude-wise, north Alabama is more Vermont than Vermont these days.

Perhaps, one place I've not yet visited yet Harry. But I'm not sure show much of Vermont I want, the old or the new LOL

I see you have Boeing and Toyota down there. Maybe one day, I visit Huntsville, and go from there.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Sun Thinker

Perhaps, one place I've not yet visited yet Harry. But I'm not sure show much of Vermont I want, the old or the new LOL

I see you have Boeing and Toyota down there. Maybe one day, I visit Huntsville, and go from there.

I'd love to see the old Vermont, the real old VT of the late 18th century. When caribou, elk, wolves, wolverines and catamounts roamed the forests, and the massive salmon runs came up the CT River and its tributaries. I don't think we'll get all of that back in my lifetime though. We may not have any significant maple sugaring left by the end of the century.

[Sun Thinker]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

I'd love to see the old Vermont, the real old VT of the late 18th century. When caribou, elk, wolves, wolverines and catamounts roamed the forests, and the massive salmon runs came up the CT River and its tributaries. I don't think we'll get all of that back in my lifetime though. We may not have any significant maple sugaring left by the end of the century.

Not my bag, but I'm sure there are areas you can find that. I think those animals moved further West to avoid the Norther NE winters LOL